God and Reality (The nature of a \'Creator\')
> dhw:That's because you're in a designer box. But both boxes can be eternal, and if eternal energy can produce one universe, it can produce an infinite series of who knows what kind of universes, leading to who knows what kinds of life and non-life? Their nature is irrelevant to my point that an infinite series of "single file universes" gives us an infinite number of potential lucky breaks for OUR universe. The argument for one lucky break is therefore plausible even if you and I don't believe it.-Again you are at apples and oranges. I described a series of designer universes, each one fit for life. no lucky break. All we can know from science and history is First Cause (All That IS, God) is capable of starting a universe that allows life with consciousness to appear. We cannot drag any imagined reality beyond that observation.-> dhw: The first attribute you give your God is "a designer intelligence", i.e. it is conscious, and it plans (because no designer ever works without a plan), and it could hardly plan without having any purpose, and so your God ... according to the religion of David ... had the purpose of creating humans, but why did he want to create humans? Because he wanted to test their faith, to teach them the lessons of tough love (ah, God loves us). Are these attributes any different from OT Judaism?-You are correct. Not really different. But interestingly, arrived at by studying science. > > dhw; A God without attributes may as well not exist. Why not emulate BBella, and call it the All That Is? It is there, and it produced the universe and life. No name. No attributes. The perfect agnostic solution. -I don't see the agnosticism at all. See my response above. You are so bound to the God of the OT that you met in childhood you let that image muddle your thinking. Forget that God. Start on the same path I used. Just don't conjure up wooly ideas such as unorganized energy can evolve to invent consciousness.
Complete thread:
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-18, 13:36
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-18, 15:41
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-19, 16:40
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-19, 17:57
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-20, 18:52
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-20, 20:16
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-21, 18:27
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-21, 19:52
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-22, 09:47
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-22, 15:51
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-23, 22:47
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-24, 00:35
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-24, 19:39
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-24, 21:55
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-25, 17:51
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-25, 18:47
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-26, 13:18
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-26, 15:02
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-27, 17:40
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-27, 19:01
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-28, 12:23
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-28, 15:44
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-29, 08:47
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-29, 15:53
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-30, 20:38
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-30, 21:29
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-07-01, 13:49
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-07-01, 15:50
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-07-02, 17:36
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-07-02, 21:10
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-07-03, 16:43
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-07-03, 18:00
- God and Reality - dhw, 2013-07-04, 12:17
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-07-03, 18:00
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-07-03, 16:43
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-07-02, 21:10
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-07-02, 17:36
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-07-01, 15:50
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-07-01, 13:49
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-30, 21:29
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-30, 20:38
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-29, 15:53
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-29, 08:47
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-28, 15:44
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-28, 12:23
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-27, 19:01
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-27, 17:40
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-26, 15:02
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-26, 13:18
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-25, 18:47
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-25, 17:51
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-24, 21:55
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-24, 19:39
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-24, 00:35
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-23, 22:47
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-22, 15:51
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-22, 09:47
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-21, 19:52
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-21, 18:27
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-20, 20:16
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-20, 18:52
- God and Reality -
Balance_Maintained,
2013-06-20, 05:13
- God and Reality - David Turell, 2013-06-20, 15:16
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-20, 19:06
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-20, 20:22
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-11-17, 05:20
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-11-17, 14:10
- God and Reality - David Turell, 2013-11-17, 15:39
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-11-17, 14:10
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-11-17, 05:20
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-20, 20:22
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-19, 17:57
- God and Reality -
dhw,
2013-06-19, 16:40
- God and Reality -
David Turell,
2013-06-18, 15:41