God and Reality (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Wednesday, June 19, 2013, 16:40 (4174 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: If you insist on making divisions, how about the reality we think we know, and the reality we don't know? Or the reality we think we understand, and the reality we don't understand? What would I call them? I don't need to call them anything.-DAVID: Fine. I'll use a question: I have no idea why we can understand so much about the universe, an amazing fact in itself, and yet reach a level of reality where we have no understanding at all? Why isn't it all clear? I know 'why' questions are philosophical or theological.
 
I too am constantly amazed by what we humans have achieved. Why isn't it all clear? There is an indirect answer to that in the multiverse article you referred us to:-"Therefore, only one conclusion can be drawn: The fact that atheists have resorted to the multiverse argument constitutes a tacit admission that they have lost the argument about design in this universe. The evidence in this universe for design -- or, if you will, the fine-tuning that cannot be explained by chance or by "enough time" -- is so compelling that the only way around it is to suggest that our universe is only one of an infinite number of universes."-You believe that the first cause is eternal, conscious energy. If the Big Bang theory is correct, one can ask what your first-cause conscious energy was up to during the ETERNITY that preceded the Big Bang. Do you think it merely contemplated its energetic self doing nothing all eternity long until suddenly it thought to itself, "I know, I'll go bang and create a universe, and then I'll create humans and test their faith"? Is it not possible that your God would have been active during the ETERNITY that preceded the Big Bang? Maybe creating other universes? You are prepared to read his mind when it comes to the motive for creating THIS universe. Is the speculation that he might have created an infinite number of other universes so outrageous that you can't contemplate it? If you are prepared to contemplate it, then why shouldn't atheists also contemplate the possibility that eternal first-cause unconscious energy was active before the Big Bang, producing an infinite number of universes? Then the odds do indeed shorten. And so my answer to your question: "Why isn't it all clear?" is that wonderful though we are, there is no way we can ever hope to get to know, let alone understand the realities that have come about in the course of eternity and on the scale of infinity. Even our own universe is said to be approx. 95% "dark" energy and matter, and since it's dark, who knows what the real percentage is, let alone what it consists of or contains?-DAVID: I try to have an answer that seems to make sense. You throw up your hands and say I just don't know. To each his own.-The atheists' answer also makes sense to them. I started this website because I was appalled by Dawkins' blinkered vision, and found that his opponents could offer nothing but equally blinkered visions. I wanted a more informed and rational debate on all the issues, and hoped to learn from that. I didn't just throw up my hands. Thanks to your good self and many others over the last five and a half years, I've certainly learned a lot. The fact that I have not suddenly been overcome by a glorious vision of the ultimate truth ... and I'm afraid four-quark particles will not make me see the light either! ... does not diminish the value of this experience, or stop me from considering and reconsidering all the options.-****-I shall have to come back to Nagel & Feser another time.