Why is there anything? (Introduction)
> Here's the kicker: There's no such thing as being "outside" the universe. The universe IS existence. The only alternative to existence is non-existence. -Of course the universe is existence, as WE see it. The universe is expanding, into what? Complete nothingness, non-existence; agreed > > > > > > > Nonexistence, is literally "non-being" which is where the real dilemma begins. The short of it is: "Being" is the only possible state of the universe. -Again agreed. Within an expanding universe.-> > > > > > > When you bring God into it--as David does--this complicates things. A panentheistic God literally IS the universe, because at a minimum, the universe is contained within it. -By my definition and Judaism God has always existed and is eternal, and with my self-taught philosophic finding, God is also the'first cause' as in Christian theology.-> > > > > A mind... IS something. A universal mind *is* something. So, either you agree with Blackmore that mind is a delusion, or a mind *is* something. You can't have this both ways.-I don't have it both ways. You know my feeling about Blakemore, intellectually dishonest from my reading of her book, Dying to Live. > > [EDITED] > The corollary is then, you can shift the question from "What created the Universe?" to "What created God? All the same argumentative absurdities still apply.-No, God is eternal. God is energy as a mind. Energy is eternal. - > > 1) The traditional Judeo-Christian notion that God is a completely separate and transcendent existence that is entirely separate from the universe. This rejects panentheism by definition. -As I wrote elsewhere on this site, I can make up my own theology, all religions do. My God is both within and without the unvierse and by definition that is panentheism. > > 2) If the universe *is* existence, then the universe includes God. God is not separate from the universe, God is *part of* the universe. This encompasses both panentheism AND Vedic notions of God. (Pantheism.)-Yes!!! > > In the case of panentheism, you try to state that the universe exists *within* God. Here's the problem. If mind exists, mind is also part of the universe. So the boundary between a universal mind and the universe is false, because they both exist. (The universe is all *existence.*) To me, this argues that panentheism is a false notion. -It is a screwed up argument. We exist in the mind of God. Why do you think quantum mechanics and theory is like it is? > > So in this case, being "outside" the universe means... entering nonexistence. "outside" the universe literally means passing into complete nonexistence, literally, beyond God.-Yes!!! > > [FURTHER EDIT] > > So now we have the question: "Why something rather than nothing?" This is a question that only has any meaning, if you follow the Judeo-Christian notion of God. -you can see I don't.-> Otherwise, our only choices are existence, or nonexistence. In panentheism [and pantheism], our universe is as old as God, because in both cases... God is the universe. Same for pantheism. Only in the Judeo-Christian notion do you gain a cosmogony where that question is valid. That's the only one that can truly start with "void" and end with "something."-Again yes. One asks the question and answers with my theology. Religions are human inventions, not a God-given requirement. I try not to give God a anthropomorphic personality. He is a person like no other person, per Adler.
Complete thread:
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-18, 15:37
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2011-12-24, 15:22
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-24, 21:01
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2011-12-26, 08:27
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 15:20
- Why is there anything? - dhw, 2011-12-27, 08:36
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2011-12-26, 18:19
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 21:41
- Why is there anything? - xeno6696, 2011-12-27, 01:31
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2011-12-27, 08:24
- Why is there anything? - xeno6696, 2011-12-27, 14:33
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 21:41
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-03-28, 12:47
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-03-28, 14:41
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-03-29, 14:26
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-03-30, 02:33
- Why is there anything? - dhw, 2012-03-30, 19:09
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-03-30, 22:37
- Why is there anything? - David Turell, 2012-03-31, 05:39
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-03-30, 22:35
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-03-31, 05:36
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-03-31, 15:56
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-01, 00:27
- Why is there anything? - Balance_Maintained, 2012-04-01, 04:19
- Why is there anything? - dhw, 2012-04-01, 18:06
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-01, 00:27
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-01, 23:01
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-02, 01:11
- Why is there anything? - dhw, 2012-04-02, 15:11
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-02, 16:42
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-02, 18:21
- Why is there anything? -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-04-03, 00:26
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 02:46
- Why is there anything? -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-04-03, 05:15
- Why is there anything? - xeno6696, 2012-04-03, 11:24
- Why is there anything? -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-04-03, 05:15
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 02:46
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 02:39
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-03, 05:17
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 11:26
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-03, 14:15
- Why is there anything? - xeno6696, 2012-04-03, 21:40
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-03, 14:15
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-04-03, 13:10
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 13:56
- Why is there anything? - David Turell, 2012-04-03, 14:37
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 13:56
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 11:26
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-03, 05:17
- Why is there anything? - xeno6696, 2012-04-03, 11:30
- Why is there anything? -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-04-03, 00:26
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-02, 18:21
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 11:50
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-03, 14:34
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 21:46
- Why is there anything? -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-04-04, 00:03
- Why is there anything? - xeno6696, 2012-04-04, 01:05
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-04-04, 13:24
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 15:24
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-04-04, 17:45
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 18:37
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-04-05, 14:59
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-05, 15:19
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-04-05, 19:45
- Why is there anything? - David Turell, 2012-04-05, 23:20
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-04-05, 19:45
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-05, 15:19
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-04-05, 14:59
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 18:37
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-04-04, 17:45
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 15:24
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 01:09
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-04, 03:57
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 04:59
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-04, 11:36
- Why is there anything? - David Turell, 2012-04-04, 18:55
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-04, 11:36
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 04:59
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-04, 03:57
- Why is there anything? -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-04-04, 00:03
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-03, 21:46
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-03, 14:34
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-02, 01:11
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-03-31, 15:56
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-03-31, 05:36
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-03-30, 02:33
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2012-03-29, 14:26
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-03-28, 14:41
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 15:20
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2011-12-26, 18:02
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 18:23
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2011-12-26, 18:33
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 18:56
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2011-12-26, 20:23
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 20:28
- Why is there anything? - xeno6696, 2011-12-26, 20:39
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 20:28
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2011-12-26, 20:23
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 18:56
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2011-12-26, 18:33
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-26, 18:23
- Why is there anything? -
dhw,
2011-12-26, 08:27
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2011-12-24, 21:01
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2012-04-04, 00:59
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 01:24
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-28, 00:17
- Why is there anything? - dhw, 2012-04-28, 15:23
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-05-04, 01:26
- Why is there anything? A new essay - David Turell, 2016-09-02, 19:33
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-28, 00:17
- Why is there anything? -
David Turell,
2012-04-04, 01:24
- Why is there anything? -
xeno6696,
2011-12-24, 15:22