Why is there anything? (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, December 27, 2011, 08:36 (4694 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I don’t see any difference between the two questions [1) why is there something?; 2) why isn’t there nothing?] since they both imply that there OUGHT to be nothing.

DAVID: To my way of thinking, something has to be eternal. Either a multiverse (?) or a UI..

Dhw: I don’t see why the choice is between a multiverse and a UI. I agree that something has to be eternal, but the idea of an Eternal Intelligence intelligently doing nothing in a complete vacuum for ever (retrospectively) until eventually it came up with the idea of creating a material universe seems pretty laughable to me. Ugh, what a boring (retrospective) eternity! At least an eternal, material and ever changing universe doesn’t strike me as ridiculous...........Neither science nor religion can EVER come up with ANY theory connected with eternity that is not pure conjecture. So let’s have some more Christmas turkey...I may not know how it got here, but I do know where it's going.

DAVID: You Europe folks never had turkey until we colonists discovered them in the wild and learned to grow them in captivity. There is ALWAYS A FIRST CAUSE. You've missed that point in the discussion I've had with Matt.

Turkey or not turkey, that is not the question. In your discussion with Matt, the first cause was either a multiverse or a UI. To our knowledge, however, there is NEVER A FIRST CAUSE, since nothing we know can have existed without the universe, and we don’t know what caused the universe, or what caused the cause of the universe, or… Your first cause has to be unique and has to remain unknown. Your theory is that it’s an eternal UI (see above for my objections), another is that it’s an ever changing material universe (no need for it to be multi). What point have I missed?

Thank you for my turkey. You Americans would never have had Santa Claus coming down your chimney if we Europeans hadn’t produced St Nicholas. We evolutionists might call this an example of Chrimbiosis.