Dualism (Identity)

by David Turell , Sunday, May 10, 2020, 16:43 (1657 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: What the various-sized brains control is the level of thought complexity, based on their individual construction, the soul can reach. At each level the soul is freely thinking to whatever limit is imposed.

dhw: How does their construction control the level at which your dualist’s soul can think? The brain provides information, so you can rightly argue that the soul’s thinking is limited to the information given by the senses. And so, using our example of the first spear: small-brained homo thinks: “me want kill from distance”. He is using EXISTING information. But now he needs more information – and so he has to do some hard thinking, and hard thinking is what changes the brain. That is what we mean by developing, designing and finally manufacturing the artefact.

DAVID: The brain provides much more than just information. How about the ability to conceptualize?

dhw: I have just listed what else the brain is used for (now bolded)! Concepts are immaterial and would come from the dualist’s soul, which processes all the information and instructs the brain to give material expression to its thoughts.

You've again left out the soul can only initiate concepts by using the brain's networks to think of them. The soul in life must do that. The soul does not sit outside the brain and tell it what to do. They are intricately bound together

DAVID: You refuse to accept my concept that complexity of thought is limited by complexity and size of neuronal networks available for use by the soul/human essence.

dhw: The dualist’s soul is limited by the extent of knowledge made available to it by the brain and other parts of the body.

How does that differ from my theory?

DAVID: Erectus at 1,000 cc is basically our immediate predecessor and never could have had our thinking ability. The brain provides much more than just information as you keep trying to imply. As below:

dhw: I imply no such thing, as above. Your comment about erectus implies that a 1000 cc brain cannot have the thinking ability of a 1500 cc brain, and you may well be right. Materialists would certainly agree. But dualists believe in a soul that does the thinking, and so the more thinking it does, the more the brain will change, and that in turn will provide more information for the soul to work on, and the more information the soul has, the more complex its thoughts will become, and then the more complex the brain will become as it responds to those thoughts. This is a perfectly logical, interactive progression.

Again, you have quoted a dualist theory that is not mine. Don't impose your dualist theories on me! You've done this before. I don't accept it, as stated many times before..

DAVID: In life the soul must use the living brain networks to not only gain info but to develop new concepts and immaterial thoughts.

dhw: Agreed, as described above. It is the soul that does the immaterial conceptualizing and developing while the brain provides the information and the material development and expression or production of the concept.

No, no, no. In the bold it's your dualism theory, not mine. The soul must use the brain's thinking networks to conceptualize. eh brain dos give sensory input.

DAVID: In NDE's and death the soul does this all on its own. This is my dualism.

dhw: Also agreed. And this provides evidence that the soul does the thinking and the developing of new concepts and the production of immaterial thoughts. And (once more) in the material world it acquires information from the brain and it uses the brain to give material expression to its immaterial thoughts and concepts.

If you accept my way of stating my theory, we may be in agreement.