Dualism (Identity)

by David Turell , Tuesday, May 05, 2020, 19:38 (1662 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: We do differ. You totally dismiss or ignore my major point. At each stage of hominin or homo the organisms soul in life can only think up to a complexity level the existing complex form of brain allows.

dhw: In the same post (adopting the dualist’s viewpoint), I wrote: “The only remaining difference is your insistence that the dualist’s brain has to be changed [i.e. by God][/b] before the dualist’s soul can come up with any new thoughts, whereas I propose that it is the thoughts of the soul that change the brain.” In other words, it is new thought that complexifies or expanded the brain, not the complexified or expanded brain that gives/gave rise to new thoughts. You have merely repeated that in different words.

No I haven't. The bold applies. We are following different thoughts. I still maintain God expands larger more complex brains which allows the soul to have more complex thoughts. Same motto: a brain is capable of thinking only at a level the brain networks allow.

DAVID: Since the soul must use the brain circuits to think, it can produce complex artifacts only to the level the brain complexity allows.

dhw: "To think" is too vague. I thought we agreed that the soul uses the brain for information and for implementation (= design and production), to which you added memory. The rest of your sentence is exactly right according to my theory: if the existing brain complexity did not allow the production of the complex artefact, it had to expand in order to design and produce the artefact. (In the modern brain, it would complexify instead of expanding).

Your usual confused interpretation of what I present. See statements above. For brain size to advance God is needed.

DAVID: Our brain has helped the soul to produce our current complex civilization. The bolded portion of your statement, always forgets what I have just written. THE SOUL ALWAYS USES THE LIVING BRAIN'S NETWORKS TO DEVELOP THOUGHTS, JUST AS I DO. My version of dualism: soul immaterial, brain material. In death, purely immaterial soul remembers, thinks as NDE's demonstrate. Over the years this has never changed, but you keep pouncing every time I don't mention all of it. WHY?

dhw: No disagreement on any of this, especially your block capitals. Yes, the soul needs the brain to “DEVELOP” thoughts. But the difference between us is that the soul’s initial thoughts (e.g. kill from a distance) come before there is any brain change. It is the DEVELOPMENT that changes the brain, i.e. the effort to implement the thought. I have explained above (first paragraph) why I “pounce” on "Only an advanced brain can have advanced thoughts." Your theory of expansion preceding new thoughts makes perfect sense if the brain is the source of thought (materialism)! It does not make sense if the soul is the source of thought (dualism).

It makes perfect sense if you accept God expands and complexifies the more advanced brain, which the soul can then use to think and design. We are still arguing at cross purposes. You are trying to establish from known facts a possible way brains enlarged naturally, no God involved. The theory simply boils down to hard thought drives enlargement. It is pure invention from wishful thinking. I see no natural support for it. And my God theory says: a brain/soul can only think of advanced thought if the networks are sufficiently advanced to allow creation of those thoughts.