Information as the source of life; not by chance (Introduction)

by David Turell , Friday, January 10, 2020, 14:59 (1778 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: God SUPPLIES the needed info, no more.

dhw: Then please withdraw your statement that “intelligent information [...] is my God”.

DAVID: I've finally found your objection to something I've written and corrected in the bolded above, and corrected below:
From an entry days ago: "The so-called intelligent information carried between iterations is [by] my God. God is my infinity." Sorry for the obvious typo you seized upon so triumphantly, when you know my position full well!!!

dhw: I didn’t seize on it triumphantly. We are discussing the nature and role of information, which according to the heading of this thread is supposed to be the source of life. To me that is nonsense, but the statement that “intelligent information is my God” suggests that you believe your heading, since you believe your God to be the source of life. I had no idea it was a typo and you had left out a word (maybe two, since "information by" doesn't quite make sense)that changed the entire meaning, but I’m glad we can now forget the whole idea that information is the source of life. You have ignored the rest of that section of the post, and so I assume that you now accept my original statement (“There is nothing backward in the argument that random processes do produce information, information is non-active, random processes do not produce instructions, and instructions can only be produced by intelligent use of information") as well as my criticisms of your own, one part of which even had life existing before it emerged.

Random processes can only produce descriptive information which an observing mind will describe.

dhw: We have no idea if there have been lots of new universes, but it makes no difference to the argument. If the conscious energy you call God can be eternal and can produce a zillion universes, then so can unconscious energy, and a zillion universes may eventually produce one with the requisite combination. This is not my wish, and I don’t believe it, any more than I believe in eternal conscious energy. That is why I am an agnostic. Remember?

DAVID: Open your mind to the finite existence of this universe. In a series of universes each must start from initial conditions and must evolve from a definite beginning whether a bang or a bounce. Life exists only after a stretch of time!!! My God carries the info in advance for each universe He creates. What can your agnostic mind produce to explain this if anything? Your 'unconscious energy' is not an organized mind, but you unreasonably give it the attributes of a planning mind. Talk about illogicality!

dhw: Life has come about through combinations of materials. Of course it exists after a stretch of time, but if you believe in an eternity and an infinite number of universes, you have a potential infinity of combinations, regardless of the fact that each one must have a beginning. You then suddenly ask me to explain how your God carries the info for each one in advance! (Or is this another typo?) Why don’t you explain how immaterial pure energy can carry info in advance for every universe it creates!

It is obvious, my faith in God tells me He has powerful thinking mind.

dhw: Of course unconscious energy is not a mind, and I have never given it "planning attributes". The theory proposes that chance created the first rudimentary form of consciousness. I don't believe it, but nor do I see why organized conscious energy that has always existed should be more credible than unorganized, unconscious energy which eventually produces combinations of materials that lead to life and consciousness.

Why bother to invent a theory which for you is not believable? But God is more credible since you accept obvious design exists! So you invent a fairy tale with no evidentiary substance.

dhw: And why do you constantly ignore my emphasis on the fact that I cannot believe EITHER hypothesis, which is why I remain agnostic!

I don't ignore your agnosticism which is quite apparent in the title of your website. I am using it to proselytize, as you have graciously allowed, against it and atheism.