Information as the source of life; not by chance (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, January 09, 2020, 19:07 (1779 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I agree with you, use of existing information is the source of life, but the information has to be supplied first!

dhw: Thank you for finally agreeing that the first part of the heading of this thread is absurd. And I agree with you too, but the agnostic’s dilemma is not knowing the origin of everything that contains information. Perhaps it is your God, perhaps it is an infinite, eternal, ever changing material universe. I drew attention to your new definition of God as bolded above: “intelligent information […] is my God” and expressed surprise that apparently information has a conscious mind.

DAVID: My God supplied/supplies "intelligent information" my shorthand for intelligently formed information.

dhw: So now you are saying that “intelligently formed information” is your God. More confusion.

> DAVID: The bold above is not your weird interpretation. God SUPPLIES the needed info, no more.

dhw: Then please withdraw your statement that “intelligent information [...] is my God”.

I've finally found your objection to something I've written and corrected in the bolded above, and corrected below:

From an entry days ago: "The so-called intelligent information carried between iterations is [by] my God. God is my infinity." Sorry for the obvious typo you seized upon so triumphantly, when you know my position full well!!!

dhw: Evidence for the big bang is irrelevant to the subject of conscious versus unconscious energy.

DAVID: 'Eternal' universes are a series of bangs and then crunches, but each new universe has to start over from scratch to create each new reality! Your use of eternity is very flawed. Of course there is an original 'first cause' at the beginning of the series, which can be deist or theist, or your preference, amorphous energy.

dhw: What beginning? Are you now telling us that your God had a beginning? Of course you’re not. And so once more: If your conscious God had no beginning, then the unconscious, ever changing universe might also have had no beginning, and that = eternity. Where is the flaw?

DAVID: Eternity only exists for ALL universes, not each one which has a finite beginning and therefore not eternal. Out goes your fervent wish that enough random combinations will produce anything in a single universe. As for God He is eternal first cause.

dhw: We have no idea if there have been lots of new universes, but it makes no difference to the argument. If the conscious energy you call God can be eternal and can produce a zillion universes, then so can unconscious energy, and a zillion universes may eventually produce one with the requisite combination. This is not my wish, and I don’t believe it, any more than I believe in eternal conscious energy. That is why I am an agnostic. Remember?

Open your mind to the finite existence of this universe. In a series of universes each must start from initial conditions and must evolve from a definite beginning whether a bang or a bounce. Life exists only after a stretch of time!!! My God carries the info in advance for each universe He creates. What can your agnostic mind produce to explain this if anything? Your 'unconscious energy' is not an organized mind, but you unreasonably give it the attributes of a planning mind. Talk about illogicality!