An Alternative to Evolution: pt 2 (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, July 12, 2018, 13:08 (160 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

(Tony, please repeat the comment you are responding to. I had to hunt for it! And there may even be a reader or two out there who would appreciate the context.)

dhw: Why is it not conceivable that your God designed the whole evolutionary mechanism for speciation and variation to develop out of the same genetic programming language he invented right at the beginning of life?

TONY: I've already explained why, but you didnt like the answers. God likely could do whatever he wanted, but are talking about what he Did do, not could do. Show me evidence.

Please humour me and summarize in a single sentence why it is not possible.
All of us can show some evidence for our hypotheses, but none of us can provide conclusive evidence even that your God exists, let alone that he did it this way and not that way.

DAVID: I don't think dhw has ever realized the degree of complexity that is required by the homeostasis that life is required to create. It demands a designing engineer.

A totally unworthy and unnecessary comment since I have repeated ad nauseam that the case for design is a major reason for my agnosticism. I have also repeated ad nauseam why I have equal difficulty accepting the concept of a sourceless, unknown, eternal consciousness etc. Please stop erecting straw men.:-(

DAVID: Fits my point that all the needed information for life from bacteria to humans was present from the beginning.
TONY: I think it is premature to make that assumption. As a designer, that strikes me as intuitively wrong. You don't design the end and work your way back, usually, especially with more complex systems.

DAVID: If God can see the future, my thought is not unreasonable.
TONY: But what does the evidence say? The evidence is that we have these events like the Cambrian explosion. A whole slew of new life forms emerging fully formed with no intermediates. If we were to contrast Cambrian lifeforms versus early life forms, would they have more or less information and complexity?

Tony has asked David the same question as my own: why can’t a new organ/organism contain and pass on information that did not exist before? And I have repeatedly asked for a definition of “information” – request repeatedly ignored. The only answer we get is: “I believe all the necessary info for life and evolution was present from the beginning. The loss of information from mutations means everything needed was present at the first cell.” But David, you also believe your God dabbled. Is it not possible that he added “information” to whatever he dabbled with? If only you would define "information", your argument might become clearer.

DAVID: My approach: [Evolution] Guided by God with all the information/instructions provided at the beginning of life fits Tony and not the theory of random mutations driving anything.

All of us agree that random mutations are out. But Tony rejects evolution and common descent. As you are our resident theistic evolutionist, won't you please explain why you reject Tony's arguments against the form of evolution you believe in?


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