Human Consciousness: Penrose: soul survives! (Humans)

by David Turell , Wednesday, November 09, 2016, 14:51 (2937 days ago) @ dhw

dhw:I am making two points here. One, that materialism and dualism are not incompatible. But two, we are no nearer to solving the question of whether there is such a thing as a consciousness which can live on as a functioning, communicating, observing “I” after the death of its material source. That would require the purest possible form of dualism, with consciousness preceding materials – a concept that lies at the very heart of most religions and inevitably leads to God. I am not arguing against it, or against the possibility of an immortal, observing and thinking soul, as seems to be suggested by NDEs. I am simply saying that none of the hypotheses (quantum information, morphic field, everlasting energy) are of any help in settling the issue, and I would suggest that science is incapable of doing so, since it is restricted to a materialist approach to the whole subject. That’s why I like Penrose’s caution: “It’s possible,..can exist…perhaps indefinitely, as a soul.” We shall just have to wait and see – or not see!

DAVID: Bravo. Brilliant analysis! However, true materialism does not explain consciousness while dualism appears to by including materialism on one side of its duality.

dhw: Thank you. We are all wrestling with very complex matters here. However, I don’t think either dualism or materialism explains consciousness. Materialism claims that materials must be the source of consciousness, and dualism claims that consciousness is independent of materials. “True” dualism, in my view, can only lead back to some sort of God, but even that is not an explanation – it’s merely a statement: that consciousness has always existed as the first cause.

That is the only answer. Consciousness is the appearance of an inorganic universe inventing a way to study itself! First life ( against all odds) then introspective
consciousness appears. All by chance. Consciousness first is the only reasonable conclusion.