Human Consciousness: Role of the unconscious (Humans)

by dhw, Thursday, February 11, 2016, 13:43 (3207 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: It is our levels of awareness and self-awareness that mark us out as special! In terms of character formation, anyone who has lived with animals will know that they are different individually, and there can be no question that exactly like ourselves they are a mixture of nature and nurture. But because they lack our DEGREE of self-awareness, they are not able - as far as we know - to deliberately bring their subconscious minds to the surface as we can. It is this self-awareness that leads us to ask the questions which in turn lead us to expand our horizons so far beyond those of our fellow animals. Different in degree!-DAVID: I've left your whole comment intact, because it reads exactly as I think and analyze, but with a different conclusion. You have perfectly described how different in kind are our mental processes and capacities, and try to imply it is just a little degree apart. It is a giant degree, that you would see by reading Adler, if you had the time. I'll send you a copy.-During the last three days alone, on the “Different in degree” thread, I have emphasized the giant size of the degree: 
10 Feb: "The fact that we have developed these attributes on such a massive scale is indisputable..."
9 Feb.: "Yes, the magnitude is surprising, but magnitude is a matter of degree, not kind."
8 Feb.: "I am not going to minimize the gulf between our consciousness and that of our fellow animals..."
8 Feb.: "In brief, for all the gulf in scale, I don't see why anyone should believe that our quest for knowledge and our moral and aesthetic sense are not an evolutionary extension of the same characteristics to be found in our animal ancestors."-My point is that despite the colossal gulf in degree, there is a straightforward evolutionary explanation. You have explained in your second book that Adler regards our “different in kind” form of consciousness as being immaterial, and as such it supports theism. But you have also said that animals may have “souls”, in which case they too would have an immaterial form of consciousness. So in that context it really makes no difference whether our consciousness is different in degree or in kind. You have also said that Adler does not believe computers will ever be able to “think” like humans. I'm inclined to agree. I don't believe bacteria, ants or elephants will ever think like humans either. And I don't believe humans will ever think like bacteria, ants or elephants. So what exactly is the importance of the degree versus kind debate? If Adler has an answer which you agree with, I'd be grateful if you would sum it up - you are always very good at condensing arguments, and one great advantage of this forum is we discuss things person to person rather than being directed to an endless reading list.