Why conversational equations and emergence (General)

by David Turell , Saturday, March 29, 2014, 14:03 (3890 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained


> > > >Romansh: You still did not answer my question David.
> > 
> > You say consciousness and life are nonmaterial. I will have to take your word for it, for the material and life/consciousness affect one another. Whether they exist in the dualistic sense the way you imply (or not) is irrelevant for me. They respond in a cause and effect way.
> 
> Tony: That would be because your question/point is a non-sequiter. Just because there is a cause and effect, or even if we can explain the cause and effect in hindsight, it does not preclude something being an emergent property. An emergent property is simply something that can ONLY exist because of a particular configuration of relatively elementary (in relation to the property being examined) elements in a system. 
> 
> Emergent properties do not require nor preclude prior planning. They exist regardless of intent as a combined function of their elementary components. 
> 
> The problem with human designs is that we most often lack the foresight to see all of the possibilities inherent in a system, and thus can only examine emergent properties in hindsight, and so are surprised by them. If you had perfect knowledge of a system, the emergent properties would still exist, but would not be a surprise.-Thank you for a great response, but I think Romansh was goading me with his non-sequitur, because he thinks in such a materialistic way. Consciousness is immaterial but requires a material brain to experience it. See my previous note on Nagel.