Quantum zeno effect (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, August 25, 2013, 20:46 (4108 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: FRANK ***Out of interest, I have hunted through Frank's posts, to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks. The following is under "Problems with this section", 27 October 2009 at 00.52 (ugh, it was a long hunt!): "Everything is "made out of" God. When God "pulverizes" himself, the most fundamental "pieces" of himself are the fundamental particles of nature, whatever they are (strings? who knows!). Since the fundamental particles are little pieces of God, supremely unconscious pieces of God because they are so simple, it stands to reason that when they collect together into higher and higher forms, following their own nature and coming to a focus in a "higher" being, they become more and more conscious, eventually reaching the point where they can turn right around and look inside themselves and "see" God in his fullness down deep inside, in what we call mystical experience." -This is precisely the form of panpsychist evolution (unconscious particles combining and eventually evolving consciousness) that I am describing and you are dismissing. Do you accept it on condition that the particles are "pieces of God"?-DAVID: I don't interpret God quite as Frank did. I don't think God ever pulverizes himself, but I belileve He is part of everything, but that part remains interconnected to all other parts. Frank's view and yours have no sense of organization and the universe is certainly organized. How do you get from discrete unrelated bits of consciousness to the big Bang and all that followed. Bits of consciousness coalesced to decide how to code DNA? Sorry. Won't buy it.-First of all, it's not my view. I don't have a view. But I am prepared to consider different views. If the big bang happened, what went bang? God himself? If God is "part of everything", God is part of every particle. According to you, "the basic particles organized [the universe] and have created a universe that allows us to exist." If the God in all your particles remains connected to the God in all the other particles, we have panpsychism: some form of intelligence in every particle. The fact is that no matter what we believe, particles have coalesced to create the universe and us. You like to have it both ways: your God is outside them organizing them and inside them organizing them, though how this works nobody knows. If we substitute "intelligence" for "God", my hypothetical scenario has intelligence organizing all the "discrete" particles from inside, in the same way that our own "discrete" cells have intelligence inside them, coalescing to form our bodies. Again nobody knows how this works. Where did the original intelligence come from? Another unanswerable question, whether you believe in God or not.