Evolution, Science & Religion (Evolution)
TONY (to David): You criticize the bible for being a human construct, but don't even acknowledge that science is exactly the same?-Dhw: I don't think it is exactly the same. While I share all your reservations about the "truths" that may emerge from science, its observations and experiments within the material world do provide many facts that are objectively testable and authenticated. [...] The bible is full of wonderful stories, wise insights into human conduct, and even some useful moral codes, but I really don't know why anyone should bother to consult it over matters of science. TONY: This is a very Western approach to the subject. To understand something implies more than just knowledge of its constituent parts (what/how), it also implies understanding the who, why, and what for, as well as its place in existence. It implies that knowledge at every level. -I think there's a misunderstanding here between us. If I want my car to be repaired, I don't go to the doctor. If I have a pain in the chest, I don't go to the mechanic. There is no escaping separation, West or East. To understand life and the universe, I agree that we need to understand the constituent parts AND the whys and the wherefores AND their place in existence. And the overall quest for so-called "truth" does not entail one branch of knowledge excluding others, or even taking precedence over others. But if I want to know how the material universe works, I will turn to science for the answers. This is as close to objectivity as we can get, and sometimes there is even a consensus. If I want to know about whys and wherefores, I will turn to philosophy (including religion), where there is no consensus, no objectivity, but where if I'm lucky I may find whos, whys and wherefores that suit me personally. What you refer to as the onenesss of all the interrelated elements, and as existing in the moment, as part of something larger than yourself, can be experienced by someone totally ignorant of big bangs, evolution and quantum mechanics. Similarly, some people are convinced that there is nothing beyond the material world, and so they see no need for the bible or any other instrument of religion. -You say "there must be overlap and agreement. There must be unity between the various schools of thought, or, by definition, one of them is wrong." It may be that we are talking at cross purposes. In my view, there will never be unity between the schools of thought. There are many forms of understanding ... intuitive, spiritual, purely materialistic, theistic ... and while some may overlap, some cannot possibly agree. How, for instance, can the purely materialistic (atheistic) and the theistic ever be unified? Yes indeed, by definition one of them is wrong ... but no-one can ever know for sure which one. That's why the debate is never ending!
Complete thread:
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
dhw,
2012-06-15, 15:49
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-15, 17:38
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-15, 21:31
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-15, 23:44
- Evolution, Science & Religion - David Turell, 2012-06-16, 14:28
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-15, 23:44
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
dhw,
2012-06-16, 14:32
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-16, 19:35
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romansh,
2012-06-16, 20:40
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-16, 22:24
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-16, 23:31
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-17, 01:21
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 02:08
- Evolution, Science & Religion - David Turell, 2012-06-17, 05:57
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 15:38
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 18:38
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 18:42
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 18:58
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 19:03
- Evolution, Science & Religion - Balance_Maintained, 2012-06-17, 19:10
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 19:03
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 18:58
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 18:42
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 18:38
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 02:08
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xeno6696,
2012-06-17, 18:18
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romansh,
2012-06-17, 18:40
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xeno6696,
2012-06-28, 13:16
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-29, 05:41
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-29, 18:13
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-29, 05:41
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
xeno6696,
2012-06-28, 13:16
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 18:40
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xeno6696,
2012-06-28, 13:06
- Evolution, Science & Religion - Balance_Maintained, 2012-06-28, 16:43
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
xeno6696,
2012-06-28, 13:06
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-30, 02:31
- Evolution, Science & Religion - David Turell, 2012-06-30, 03:00
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
xeno6696,
2012-06-30, 03:44
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romansh,
2012-06-30, 16:15
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xeno6696,
2012-06-30, 19:03
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romansh,
2012-07-01, 19:46
- Free Will 2 -
xeno6696,
2012-07-02, 23:02
- Free Will 2: Wolfram - David Turell, 2012-07-03, 16:42
- Free Will 2 -
romansh,
2012-07-05, 03:08
- Free Will 2 -
xeno6696,
2012-07-05, 23:16
- Free Will 2 -
romansh,
2012-07-08, 02:23
- Free Will 2 - xeno6696, 2012-07-09, 22:31
- Free Will 2 -
romansh,
2012-07-08, 02:23
- Free Will 2 -
xeno6696,
2012-07-05, 23:16
- Free Will 2 -
xeno6696,
2012-07-02, 23:02
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romansh,
2012-07-01, 19:46
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
xeno6696,
2012-06-30, 19:03
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-30, 16:15
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 18:40
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-17, 01:21
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-16, 23:31
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-16, 22:24
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-17, 01:18
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
dhw,
2012-06-17, 15:01
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-17, 18:20
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
dhw,
2012-06-17, 15:01
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
dhw,
2012-06-17, 15:09
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romansh,
2012-06-17, 16:25
- Evolution, Science & Religion - dhw, 2012-06-17, 22:53
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-17, 18:23
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 18:53
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 18:59
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 19:01
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romansh,
2012-06-17, 19:04
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2012-06-17, 19:15
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romansh,
2012-06-17, 19:23
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 21:27
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 21:41
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 23:19
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-17, 23:33
- Evolution, Science & Religion - romansh, 2012-06-18, 02:14
- Evolution, Science & Religion;oxygen -
David Turell,
2012-06-19, 15:14
- Evolution, Science & Religion;oxygen - David Turell, 2012-07-30, 20:57
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
xeno6696,
2012-06-22, 00:22
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-28, 16:45
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-28, 17:56
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-28, 16:45
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David Turell,
2012-06-17, 23:33
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 23:19
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xeno6696,
2012-06-22, 00:10
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-22, 13:07
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-22, 21:21
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xeno6696,
2012-06-22, 21:37
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romansh,
2012-06-22, 23:55
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-23, 03:52
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-23, 11:55
- Evolution, Science & Religion - David Turell, 2012-06-23, 15:21
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-28, 13:49
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-23, 11:55
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-23, 03:52
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-22, 23:55
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-22, 13:07
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 21:41
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 21:27
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 19:23
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 19:15
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 19:04
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 19:01
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
dhw,
2012-06-17, 23:06
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 23:34
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-18, 01:12
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-18, 14:00
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-18, 14:38
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-18, 15:32
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-22, 00:01
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-18, 15:32
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
xeno6696,
2012-06-21, 23:59
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-22, 12:49
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-22, 21:25
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-22, 12:49
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-18, 14:38
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-18, 14:00
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
xeno6696,
2012-06-21, 23:55
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-22, 12:46
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-22, 16:16
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-22, 21:17
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-22, 21:15
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-22, 16:16
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Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-22, 12:46
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-18, 01:12
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-17, 23:34
- Evolution, Science & Religion - xeno6696, 2012-06-21, 23:44
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 18:59
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-17, 16:25
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
romansh,
2012-06-16, 20:40
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-16, 19:35
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
David Turell,
2012-06-15, 21:31
- Evolution, Science & Religion -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-06-15, 17:38