Evolution in schools; legal trap (Introduction)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Friday, June 08, 2012, 16:45 (4552 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The First Cause is energy, because it HAS to be. Since we are organized energy, first cause was also organized. To paraphrase LEAR: no organization will come of no organization. First cause is organized energy. The emergent property of organization is progressive evolution. First evolve a universe and then evolve us. All contingent events. Simple.
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> Clever, but it ain't necessarily so. Yes, we are organized, but that does NOT mean the first cause was organized. The whole debate centres on whether order can or can't generate itself out of disorder, and it proves nothing simply to state that it can't. We just don't know. Given an eternity and infinity of energy, we have an eternity and infinity of possible forms and combinations of the matter it may produce. So it's either eternal, conscious, self-organizing energy (God), or it's eternal unconscious energy which self-organizes at some point (or maybe even at many points) in an eternity of the higgledy-piggledy. Not so simple.-I'm piggybacking on dhw here to also bring about a solid point from Giorbran:-Our concepts of "order" and "disorder" as David is using it is completely wrong. There are two kids of order: grouping, and symmetry. Entropy is the transformation of one kind of order to another.-Grouping order would be how our cells combine, and symmetry order would be how a drop of food coloring disperses evenly in a glass. -Chaos--what we "perceive" as disorder is the process we observe as one state shifts to another. This is what chaos theory describes.-So it is incorrect to state "order comes from disorder." There is ONLY order. Disorder in the sense we use it in common parlance, is a lie.

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"