Einstein and Time: The \"reality\" of math (Humans)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Saturday, April 28, 2012, 19:54 (4591 days ago) @ David Turell

This universe and/or any other multiverses had a beginning:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27793/
> > 
> > The corollary: God is finite.
> 
> Unless He is eternal and outside the math, which He created. The reality of math is that it exists whether we are here or not to discover it. I know yhou know that. We only discover it, not invent it.-It goes back to the basic discussion we had regarding panentheism/pantheism and the universe. Existence/nonexistence. -If God is part of the universe, then God IS the universe. If God is separate from the universe, than God is not part of the universe. These are the only two possible distinctions. -It really comes down to, do you take the western notion of a completely transcendent God (Abrahamic) or the all-inclusive God is "in everything." -There is no mixture. -As for the reality of math, you need to go back to an ancient post I had. You're conflating Physics with Mathematics. -Mathematics is language only. Mathematics, is ultimately "made up." We use it to describe the world in physics. As I've asked before, should we be surprised that the most precise language ever invented can precisely describe the world? -If you push deep enough into the structure of mathematics, you will ultimately ascertain that the foundation or bedrock of mathematics itself is based on tautologies... Not on observation. As a computer scientist I have to be intimately aware of the "nature of numbers." The superstructure of mathematics is ultimately based on pure, raw logic. The corollary of this is that if math has a "real" and "independent" existence, then a mathematical "theory of everything" isn't just plausible--it necessarily exists!-However, Godel's incompleteness theorem forever shut the door on the Platonic view that there was a "mathematical reality." This contradicts the notion that a "theory of everything" exists. Well. In mathematical terms. Enter Physics: the counter-claim to my position is that physics isn't an axiomatic system. Therefore, a theory of everything can exist. But Godel still constrains this view, because if you ditch axioms, then you have to have inconsistencies and holes in your understanding. -To try and communicate the ephemeral quality of mathematics:
If you take a pencil, and then take a glass. Set them down. -What does mathematics allow you to do? Just to say that you have "two" objects in front of you. -This property of "twoness" is however abstract, a relationship that doesn't really exist outside of the realm of the observer's mind. It is extremely difficult to be able to determine if the property you're discussing with mathematics is one based only upon logic or based on observation. An entire study of the philosophy of mathematics is in fact, predicated on exactly this kind of study. And it's NOT a fun read. Even for me. -All of that is really a fancy way of saying this: I think your real point is that you're amazed that we can predict events in our universe. But even if you study malformed universes--they still all behave predictably. In short, predictability is a necessary property of existence itself, and I don't think we should be amazed at that.

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"