Free will again (Humans)

by dhw, Saturday, March 17, 2012, 12:28 (4633 days ago) @ BBella

DHW: You say we should focus on the object or situation instead of on what you call mind chatter, and I say we can only do that by wilfully (carefully chosen adverb!) suppressing the level of consciousness that makes us watch ourselves instead of looking at the object or situation.-BBELLA: I'm not actually telling anyone what they "should" do. [...] I have to slightly change the way you put that sentence above. Maybe this is saying the same thing - we will see with your response: With my will, I chose to turn all my senses away from the mind chatter. In my sentence, there isn't any suppressing. In my particular instance, my mind chatter only quieted because I directed my focus, including my senses (ears, eyes, feelings, etc,) away from the mind chatter. Metaphorically, I remember saying, I turned my back on my mind. As we agreed before, there is no controlling thought (mind chatter) - only "willfully" changing our focus away from it.-Perhaps I should have asked you right from the start what you meant by "mind chatter", and I should have explained what I meant by (excessive) self-awareness. This for me is not "catching our reflection or looking in the mirror or watching or wondering how our legs look when they are crossed" but something far deeper. It's an examination of our own thoughts and perceptions, which on one level is both necessary and beneficial, but when carried too far can prove to be harmful. No matter what human activity we're considering, the focus will always become distorted if we're too conscious of the fact that our mind does not make direct contact with reality but is a filter (even filtering itself!), and that we are therefore fallible in all our judgements. Decision-making, contact with other people, and even contact with oneself may become almost impossible. Let me try a different example. Our introvert friend Willie Waver is attracted to a girl. We'll call this attraction the "thought", since it's not controllable. He is, of course, aware of it, which is Level One of his consciousness. Now he must make a decision: to approach or not to approach? This is where we move to higher levels of awareness. Willie wilfully suppresses the desire to kiss her ... which would no doubt be offensive ... and searches for a possible approach, finds fault with each one he thinks of, recognizes the irrationality of his own desires, questions whether he really wants any sort of relationship, fears rejection, is unsure about his own powers of attraction etc. Now either he suppresses this level of self-awareness (an effort of the will) and still makes an approach, or he allows it to take control. In this case, the girl who might have been the love of his life eventually leaves the room, and our Willie lives unhappily ever after. -The battle here is between the uncontrollable thoughts and the need to focus, to be selective, to take a decision ... all of which depend on the will. This is a level of consciousness above awareness of thought, since it's the level that's capable of control. I'm not concerned here with whether it's free or not, but with the fact that we're constantly operating on these different levels of awareness. And that, to return to our own starting point, is why I find Blackmore's repeated question "Am I conscious (now)?" quite meaningless, and possibly dangerous. Conscious of what? She doesn't say. Conscious on what level? She doesn't say. My whole argument is encapsulated in what you wrote in an earlier post: "Thought can't be controlled. Only what you choose to focus on can be controlled." My own posts are simply an attempt to delve a bit deeper into this process and its implications.