Free will again (Humans)

by dhw, Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 14:06 (4650 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I am thoroughly convinced we control our conscious thoughts and we are not unconsciously controlled by our own renegade neurons.-The question that arises from this is WHAT (not who) IS (not are) "we"? If my identity is not forever bound to my physical self but can observe and communicate independently of my body, as in NDEs, what does it consist of? We use words like "soul" and "spirit" as if they conveyed something, but if this unknown form of energy really exists, how does it even come into being? Babies (BBella's illustration) already have recognizable traits of character very early on. Your latest post on "Epigenetics and life stress" (thank you) confirms that the identity is already being influenced before birth, both in humans and in mice. (Presumably, then, if we have souls, so do mice.) Does this mean the "unknown form of energy" is already present in the embryo, i.e. that physical conception somehow engenders the non-physical?-I see no way of separating will from consciousness from emotion from memory from imagination from identity...either they are all engendered by the chemicals in the brain or they are all engendered by a separate something which uses and works on the brain. David, you use the term "emergence" ... consciousness emerges from the brain. But if X emerges from Y, Y is the source. And so if "we" control our conscious thoughts, the source of "we" is the brain, which means the brain controls the brain. Otherwise, "emergence" can only mean that the brain produces and goes on producing an immaterial something which is independent of the brain and is able to control it! That's unimaginable. I find each theory ... material/spiritual ... just as hard to believe as the theories that chance created life, and a Universal Intelligence didn't need to be created but is just there. BBella, your perception was accurate, and I'm laughing too!