Genetic Variation (Introduction)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Saturday, October 02, 2010, 23:07 (5165 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

You have a completely different approach to science as I know it: You start with observations, make sure your observations as valid, and built a minimal theory with minimal assumptions. An assumption that a society could do what you suggest with no writing makes assumptions of human beings that have proven to be false for the entirety of our own known history. You're "bridging gaps with god."
> 
> I think you have assumed something here which I never proposed. I never even suggested that they had no written language. Even the 11,500 year old temple has many examples of symbol usage, which when you get down to the brass tacks, is what a written language is, as exemplified by Egyptian hieroglyphs. 
> -We seem to step on each other's toes alot. Mayhaps we both agree to slow down a bit more? -> Yes, I build minimal theories, with minimal assumptions, but I am not 'bridging gaps with God.' Grand Theories based on grand assumptions inevitably lead to an invalid paradigm, because they are not based on evidence. 
> -But what evidence do you actually have? You only have passive references to hindu texts--which are extremely well-known to possess hidden or deep meanings. From my cursory examination of the passage, I see many things that would have a mystical meaning and not so much as something they were recording as actual fact. Especially when the oldest usage of the word "Vimana" simply meant "Temple," also "Fortress." Taken into consideration references such as 360 (degrees in a circle) which also has esoteric meanings in Western Hermetic traditions, I don't see Vimana as being something other than an idea that we must meditate on for faith or wisdom. Or in some instances--simply a sky-chariot of the Gods. You read too literally. -My people had a mythical tale of a creature called the "Baba Yaga." According to you I should take seriously the notion of a witch who lives in a cabin on chicken legs? Or what about the Greek tale of Apollo? You confuse mystical works with scientific explanations. -
> What I asked, and what you failed to answer, is what would happen to the evidence that our archaeologist are looking for? What would happen to concrete, iron, paper, etc. over the course of 10,000 plus years of elemental exposure? The other thing I take into consideration is the question, where do we look? We have no idea, we have no clues other than what came down as myths and legends, which have on occasion proven much more valid than we ever thought possible.(The story of Gilgamesh and the black sea flood)
> -Both of these flood links you have shown have demonstrated massive--localized--floods. Not a "world flood." As for more valid--only through sophistry like what was used on Ezekiel. -As to what would happen to the evidence, this depends on what kinds of materials they used, doesn't it? Assuming they used modern materials, we should have deep open-earth pits for where they mined for metals, we should still be able to find tons of evidence of mass-scale smelting. If they were smart they could have extracted aluminum, which would give us a tremendous amount of evidence as once the outer layers of aluminum oxidize, it'll keep forever. -The story of Gilgamesh WAS Noah's Ark. -But I'm seeing your deeper question to me is, "if there is no evidence to be found, what am I to do to answer these questions?" The problem you have with me--and the rest of science--is that you have your own epistemology which isn't fully congruent with the epistemology of scientists. The writings of the ancients can be used as very general guides, but without physical evidence--you completely cancel out any possibility of science and are left with subjective claims. Science works via foundationalism, everything must be connected to everything else in a chain of logical causation building from base principles. Any claim that cannot be connected into this hierarchical web, is literally out of scope. If you want to change the epistemology of science, you get the fun job of change management. -So we treat this as we should all claims that have no evidence: In an "unsolved" pile that would await some piece of evidence to surface to validate it. If you say this isn't an answer to your question again, than I didn't understand it to begin with. -
> ...What I am doing is not trying 'bridge the god with gaps', but to merely get academic recognition for the evidence that suggest the gaps are larger than we even suspect.-But written words of Vimanas, Christ rising after 3 days, and Alexander dumping stones into the sea don't constitute evidence. All of these come from texts that assert their own validity.

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"