Hawking ditches God (The atheist delusion)

by BBella , Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 06:54 (5184 days ago) @ dhw

HAWKING: ...The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE.
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> HAWKING:...it had no beginning, no moment of Creation.
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> BBELLA (12 September at 08.00): The universe is the product of creation. Creation being the verb as well as the noun.
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> Now you've really got me confused. Hawking has argued ... as you once did, if my memory is not playing tricks ... for a universe without a beginning, not needing a creator, but just "being", and I gave you the pat on the back you asked for and deserved. What happened during your family reunion to make you suddenly so "creative"? Perhaps I've misunderstood you, because I'm flummoxed by the verb/noun reference. (Creation is only a noun ... the verb is to create, but I don't understand what you were trying to say here.)
 
You wrote "One might argue that the universe IS the creator." At the time I read that sentence, it communicated to me in that moment (whether it was meant to or not) a still snapshot of the universe and said to me, look at this picture, who could argue this is the creator? In my mind, when I looked at the picture, I did not see the creator (altho I may have before, just not in this instance) but the product of creation, regardless of what was intended. Creation, it suddenly seemed to me, fit as the best word to express both the fixed (fixed being the changeless-ness of change) and the process (change). Even tho our language states creation is a noun, I could see the word 'creation' being both noun and verb ( both the product and the process at once - matter and energy at play). 
 
The problem is capturing the duality of 'what IS' with our insufficient eyes (even with a micro/tele scope) and then expressing what we see with our insufficient language. Two inadequate senses to express what IS. But of course, language and eyesight (as well as our other senses) are the best we have to work with. Maybe it is just simpler, for language sake, to throw in the towel and call all that IS - God.