ecosystem importance: dhw's 'humans plus food' derision (Introduction)

by David Turell , Monday, January 16, 2023, 19:57 (675 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: […] He knew that our food supply had to be adequate, so the huge bush of life had to be created with us. dhw is simply illogical.

dhw: I have kept this thread separate in order to deal with your scurrilous attack!

DAVID: Your complaint about God using an evolutionary method is a complaint only God can answer because He chose to evolve humans, rather than using a direct creation.

dhw: That has nothing to do with the headline and your previous article, so first let’s get the “humans plus food derision” out of the way. Nobody in his right mind – whether theist, atheist or agnostic - will disagree that every life form, including humans, needs an adequate food supply. There is no derision. In the context of your own theory, it makes perfect sense that if your God wanted to design humans, he would also have had to design food for humans to live on. There is no derision. Since I also believe in evolution, and since we are discussing the purpose, methods and nature of your God, it makes perfect sense that if he exists, he used evolution to produce our bush of food. There is no derision. But an article recommending three meals a day does not prove your nonsensical theory that your God's sole purpose was to design us and our food supply, and therefore he designed every single life form, 99% of these designs being mistakes or failures although he was in full control and knew exactly how to achieve his purpose.

Secondly, if God exists, I have no complaint about his use of evolution to produce whatever he wanted to produce. The rest of your response simply reverts back to your new theory of evolution, as dealt with on the “David’s theory” thread, except for one important question, which you keep refusing to answer. I will lead into this. When I first proposed experimentation as one of my three alternative theistic explanations of evolution, you pooh-poohed the idea as “humanising” your all-powerful, all-knowing God, because he didn’t need to experiment and because every single design was an “absolute requirement” for us humans and our food. When you eventually had to agree that every single design could not have been an “absolute requirement” for us humans and our food, you switched to your current belief that your God did indeed experiment, and 99% of his experiments were mistakes or failures (a radical extension of my theory). And so my repeated question to you is: why do you think a God who makes countless mistakes, conducts countless failed experiments, makes wrong choices and is responsible for a complete mess before at last he is lucky enough to be offered the right conditions and survivors to fulfil his one and only purpose, is less “human” than a God who gets what he wants without making any mistakes at all – as in my three alternative theories?

To see my refutation, see today's privileged planet entry. And a bit of an apology: I knew all along the importance of the evolution of the Earth to prepare for us, but I never provided the deep understanding the current entry provides now. The bush of life is much more than food. It also evolved the current Earth we need!!!

DAVID: The post must remain. We are dear friends in a deep dispute that can reach a resolution by continuing our discussion at the level of both sides admitting evolution is messy, but God chose it.

dhw: I do not admit that your all-powerful God would have chosen a messy way to fulfil his one and only purpose. If he is all-powerful, then either your interpretation of his purpose is wrong, or your interpretation of his method is wrong. You have agreed in the past that all three of my theistic theories make perfect sense, and your only objection is that they “humanise” him. Hence my question above, which so far you have refused to answer. However I do, of course, share your personal sentiments, and once more hasten to assure any dubious readers that David and I have remained firm friends throughout the last 15 years!

Do not confuse the issue!! God's choice of a messy system does not make Him messy or incompetent or bumbling. We are here in a properly prepared planet. Evolution is a messy process when life is the subject.