# More "miscellany" (General)

Just right oxygendhw:

See above. And you are still avoiding discussing the logic of the argument.DAVID:

There is no logic except obvious design requires a designer.dhw: I have used Denton’s example as an illustration of how intelligence (whether human or cellular) uses new conditions to improve chances of survival. You seem to think that your God is incapable of giving his creations the ability to do their own designing, although you have example after example of this autonomous ability.

Where have I done this! I've agreed species do minor survival modifications, nothing more.

DAVID:We all know living organisms can do minor adaptations, but that does not answer the question of how full speciation occurs.dhw:

It is a theory to explain speciation. Just as your belief in your God’s 3.8-billion-year-old book of instructions or performance of endless individual operations on countless individual organisms (= dabbling) is a theory. Now please tell me why you find my theory illogical.DAVID:

It assumes cell committees are brilliant designers of new species with complex altertions.dhw: It proposes that cell communities pool their intelligence to do just that. If your God can endow humans with the autonomous ability to design rockets to the moon, why do you think he is incapable of endowing cells with the autonomous ability to change their structures in order to cope with or exploit new conditions?

Must I repeat secondhand design is not worth the effort of creating instructions. The comparison of our brains to simple cell committees is a huge stretch of your imagination.

Big bangQUOTE:

More than most laymen, physicists are floored by the idea of the Big Bang. We know too much not to feel mystified. Let me make sure we all understand what we do not understand. The universe began as an isolated event. So far, so good. But it was not an event in either space or time. Time and space began at the Big Bang. There was no time before time began.

Once this central absurdity is accepted….dhw:

Why should we accept such a central absurdity?DAVID:

Remember Guth et. al. made the same point mathematically. With a universe popping into existence there must be a cause that can create something from nothing. Science gives us nonnatural event process. Why not consider a supernatural one?dhw:

We agreed to disagree with Guth et al, and since nobody can possibly know what preceded our universe, it is just as reasonable/unreasonable to consider a natural process (endless combinations of first cause energy and matter) as it is to consider a first cause supernatural one.DAVID:

I don't disagree with Guth et al. Both Guth and this professor agree we appeared from nothing.dhw: And you disagreed, even to the point of allowing for the possibility that your God (who must have existed

beforethe Big Bang in order to engineer it) might well have created other universesbeforeours (and time = the sequence of before/now/after). Please let’s not repeat that recent discussion. Meanwhile, I like this professor’s description of the current interpretation of events as “an absurdity”. I always find it hard to accept absurdities.

Of course there might have been previous universes created from nothing. We agree

**Complete thread:**

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