More "miscellany" (General)

by dhw, Monday, October 25, 2021, 09:00 (33 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I cannot follow your reasoning, never have.

dhw: If you are all-powerful and have only one purpose right from the start, why would you devote your time to matters that have no connection with your purpose? I therefore suggest that your theory is unreasonable. And since you yourself cannot explain why he would act in this way, I’d have thought you’d be able to understand my reasoning.

DAVID: The problem is you skip the obvious. God's created history tells us exactly what He did. You object to God doing it that way!!!

The problem is you skip the obvious, which is that history presents us with a vast bush of extinct life forms and foods, the majority of which had no connection with humans, although you insist that your God’s only goal was to design humans plus food. But you refuse to recognize that this theory makes no sense.

Cosmologic philosophy: dhw said once universe too big
DAVID: Misuse of religion is evil, born of human free-will. Some religions have strange story inventions from human free-will minds inventing support for religious belief. I accept only the religious concept of an all powerful all knowing designer as shown by His works.

dhw: You have dismissed my theistic explanations of evolution by saying (bolded) “This is not how we religious see him” – as if somehow all believers saw him the same way. You are not “we religious”. You are “you religious”, and your personal religion does not give you the right to dismiss my different proposals regarding God’s nature because they do not coincide with what you believe.

DAVID: I have every right to dismiss your humanized form of God. He is yours alone.

But you find each of my theistic explanations logical, you keep agreeing that your God may have human attributes, and so your only objection is “this is not how we religious see him”, as if every religious person shared your own illogical explanations of evolution.

DAVID: […] as a human you don't see the point of a giant universe doesn't mean it is wrong of God to create it.

I have not said it is wrong of your God to create it, and this was my answer:
dhw: And you cannot find a single reason why he would create an infinite number of exploding stars and a vast number of life forms in order to produce one solar system and one species (plus its food). Please stop pretending that an attack on your illogical theory is an attack on your God (if he exists).

DAVID: I accept that God creates what He creates for His own reasons, the point you fight. […] Your personal reasoning is not His, and so you object to His creation of a giant universe. He did it, accept it.

If God exists, then of course he did it, but we don’t know what his reasons would have been, whereas you tell us his reason for creating billions of extinct and extant galaxies etc. was to design humans plus our food. Yet another of your dodges: you give us your illogical theory, I attack it for its illogicality, and so you pretend that your theory is the truth and I am attacking your God not your theory!

A beginning or not
Confusing Imagination with Reality
QUOTE: Sutter asserts that Bento and Zalel’s article offers a credible response against the evidence for a cosmic beginning. Yet this claim is only based on what might be possible in the realm of the imagination. The referenced paper is a highly theoretical and entirely speculative cosmological model that is almost entirely divorced from physical reality. Sutter even acknowledges this point

dhw: Of course it’s imagination. And so is the theory that a universe can spring from nothing, and so is the theory that a sourceless universal mind has occupied an eternal “before” and created the universe out of its immaterial self. Nobody can prove anything about what happened before the big bang, if the big bang happened! This discussion encourages pots to call kettles black!

DAVID: Something happened since we are here instead of nothing.

I can’t imagine anyone disagreeing with that, so let’s settle for it: something happened, and nobody knows what it was or what caused it, so by all means let’s discuss the different theories and their merits or their weaknesses, but please stop pretending you know that one theory is right and the others are wrong.


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