The simplest explanation? (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, October 06, 2020, 18:43 (1507 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Very difficult for chance evolution to explain how placental pregnancy ever developed.

dhw: I don’t know how often you want me to repeat that I agree. My proposal is that the complexities of life have come about, not by chance but through intelligent cell communities cooperating, and if God exists, I firmly believe that he would be perfectly capable of designing the intelligence of cells. Here’s an example:

DAVID: Moving out of Africa to Europe made eyes turn blue, among other colors:
https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2020/10/01/ancient_humans_eyes_were_nearly_black_...

DAVID: Darwin- based writing always points out purposeful adaptations with the assumption they just happened. They sure look directed to me.

dhw: So God stepped in to turn the eyes blue, did he? Or he programmed it 3.8 billion years ago? Don’t you think it’s just possible that this adaptation was the result of intelligent cells adjusting themselves to find the best way of coping with new conditions?

I don't think cells are ever that intelligent. IMHO they can't think through the necessity for complex genome changes.

DAVID: Shapiro does not state how that autonomous cellular intelligence developed. I chose to say God as source.

dhw: I am perfectly happy with your choice, and as you have told us that Shapiro is a practising Jew, I’m sure he would have no objection either. His goal and mine is to explain the process by which evolution works – i.e., as with the agnostic Darwin, to explain Chapter 2 of life, Chapter 1 being the origin.

And I give you God.

dhw: How do you “advance” a theory other than through research that supports or disproves it? I really wonder how further research can confirm that intelligent cells design species, or that there is a God who designs species.

dhw: No answer from you. How has your theory been "advanced"? It's a typical case of pots and kettles.

I always follow advances in research to reach conclusions. I've always told you the more complexity is found, the more it demands a designer. I'm convinced, others taking longer

dhw: We are not talking about God’s existence but about two different theories of evolution. We have no absolute proof of yours or of Shapiro’s, so please stop trying to discredit his theory for a reason which is equally applicable to your own.

DAVID: I do not accept the idea that organisms design advances in evolution using a mechanism from God. (dhw’s bold)

dhw: Repeating the fact that you don’t believe the explanation does not explain why you think it is not feasible! How would you react if an atheist dismissed your excellent arguments in favour of design with a bare “It's not feasible because I do not accept it”?

I don't accept it under the valid reason the advances are too complex for a secondary mechanism to handle it. It must be direct design. You prefer God-lite for some weird reason.

DAVID: The issue is always the personality of the God one envisions. My God is very purposeful and does not give up control to an independent inventive mechanism. Your version of God is feasible as are His actions in your wishy-washy version of God. The atheist example misses the point pf my approach.

dhw: Your approach is that you do not accept my theory because it is different from yours.

Your God is not my god is the difference.

dhw: So how would you respond if an atheist dismissed your excellent argument for design by telling you it is not feasible because he doesn’t accept it?

DAVID: The background of accepting an idea is based on one's version of God. I understand your desire to have God give the cells an autonomous invention mechanism. It diminishes God's role in direct creation but He is still obviously mostly in charge. I see Him wanting full exact control.

dhw: It is not my “desire”, I know my theory, which you don’t accept, and I know your theory. Now will you please answer my bolded question, which was asked as a response to your bolded statement above.

The bolded question has no real answer. Atheists refuse to recognize God, no acceptance for no good reason in my view.

dhw: I note with some regret that you have dropped the problem of theodicy, which again is solved by my “simplest explanation”: he didn’t want a dull Garden of Eden, and so he gave organisms the freedom to do their own designing to suit their own purposes – hence “good” and “bad” bacteria and viruses. Perhaps you have a better explanation?

Again you wish God-lite in this discussion. Open a new discussion thread and we'll battle.