Divine purposes and methods (Evolution)

by dhw, Tuesday, January 15, 2019, 16:00 (97 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Haven't you noticed the latest arrival in the fossil record in Homo sapiens. We are the most advanced and the most complex.

dhw: I have said repeatedly that we are the latest and most advanced species to appear, but the fact that we “are here” does not mean we were your God’s purpose from the very beginning, and that – yet again – is the sticking point: if we were his purpose from the very beginning, and he is in total control, why did he spend 3.5+ billion years creating dinosaurs, eight stages of whale, camouflaged cuttlefish and the duckbilled platypus? Your illogical answer is so that they could eat one another in order to keep life going until he specially designed the only thing he wanted to specially design.

DAVID: I'll repeat the very clear logic: evolution started with simple and goes to the most complex. [Agreed.] Humans are here and therefore the goal from the beginning, as 'currently' seen! [Why from the beginning? If “currently” is your criterion, then your God’s goal could have kept shifting as time went by: dinosaurs could have been the “current” goal until humans came along, since you believe he specially designed them too.]
The balance of nature to supply food for the 3.8 billion years is totally logical. (In what context is it logical? Yes, all life needs food. That doesn’t mean your God specially designed dinosaurs so that they could eat one another until he specially designed his one and only purpose: humans. THAT is what is not logical.] I accept He chose to do it that way as we see. (No, you accept your interpretation of his purpose and his choice of method.) I don't explain God, as you try to; I simply accept and offer my interpretation of His actions. [You accept your interpretation of his purpose and his method, and you admit that you can’t understand why he would have chosen that method for that purpose.] I'm sorry it is illogical for you, but then you constantly try to make Him as human as possible. [You have admitted that you don’t understand the logic either. I offer various logical alternatives to explain the different, conflicting elements of your hypothesis, but each one contradicts one or other of your fixed beliefs. The alternatives I offer are no more human than your control freak who knows what he wants, knows how to get it, but unfortunately chooses a way to get it which even you can’t understand.]

The remainder of your post simply reiterates the same points, but I’ll repeat them for the sake of clarity:

DAVID: I accept the way He chose to do it!!! The puzzle is your problem because you want God to be logical in a different way of evolutionary actions that fits your ideas about how He should have done it. But He didn't do it your way!

I don’t have a way. I offer alternatives, all of which you agree are logical. It is you who assume you know his purpose and the way he chose to fulfil it. You don’t know. As you once admitted, it’s all guesses.

DAVID: All your proposals can be viewed as logical, but wander about in the pursuit of a purposeful God, as I view Him with a primary attribute. I view Him as fully aware of His goals from the beginning and working toward them by his chosen method. You don't like His logic, but then you don't believe.

If God exists, of course he is purposeful, and I would also view him as aware of his goals and working towards them by his chosen method. The difference between us is that I do not claim to know his chosen goal or his chosen method, and I offer alternatives which you agree are logical. It is your logic I don’t like. Neither of us can know his logic, and so I come up with different possibilities.

DAVID: All you have said is you don't approve of God's chosen method. You don't have to. And I don't have to, but based on my concepts of God's attributes and purposefulness is a major one, it makes perfect sense to me.

All I have said is I don’t approve of your one-track insistence that you know God’s chosen purpose and method. You don’t. And you have acknowledged over and over again that you cannot find a logical explanation for the combination of your chosen purpose and your chosen method.


Complete thread:

 RSS Feed of thread

powered by my little forum