Divine purposes and methods (Evolution)

by David Turell , Tuesday, December 18, 2018, 18:28 (2165 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: That I can't explain why He chose His evolutionary method to achieve humans is not illogical in any way. I have my own interpretation of how it all happened under His control.

dhw: The inexplicability is the whole point. If your view of God’s purpose and intentions provides a reading of his mind for which you can’t find a logical explanation, then maybe your reading is inaccurate.

In my attempt to understand God's creation, I must accept what is known. My explanations are reasonable thoughts in regard to a Creator who is purposeful, selfless in His intentions and sees Himself as gaining nothing for himself, except the satisfaction of a job well done. You don't look at Him that way. In interpreting a very diverse bush of life, My best idea is that it provides food until evolution runs its current course. That humans are His main purpose is obvious. We are currently at the present end of evolution. Since humans are so much in control it appears likely to me major evolution is over and unimagined very advanced new species will not appear. I see nothing 'inexplicable' in my views, but then my views of God are not yours.

DAVID: You are dealing with my faith belief that God is the creator and is fully in control. I've given my reasons for jumping the chasm as developed from scientific discoveries. My logic is not your logic on your agnostic side of the chasm.

dhw: I accept your scientific reasons (design) for your faith that God is the creator, but with my theist hat on, I can make no sense of your highly subjective reading (totally divorced from science) of his powers, purpose, and method of achieving that purpose, the three of which you yourself cannot fit together.

It all fits together for me. Even in creating whales to create a very complex ecosystem in oceans.

dhw: Your logical gap is expanding: (a) If your God wanted to produce a whale, why bother with intermediate stages, and (b) if your God only wanted to produce H. sapiens, why bother with eight stages of whale?

God chose to evolve what appears. There is no reason for me to know why. I simply must accept his choice of method. Perhaps His creative powers require it. Religions in the Bible infer the ability for direct creation, but the Bible, in my view, is a human creation, not the real truth.

dhw: Once more, please explain why your God needed to provide food, then different food, then more different food in order to fulfil his one purpose (us), which you believe he could have done without whales, since he’s in full control.

DAVID: I accept what we see God create. You don't.

And as above, you view God very differently than I do. I can explain whales to my satisfaction.

dhw: If he exists, I can hardly not accept what he created! But that does not mean he created every innovation, econiche etc. for 3.5+ billion years, or that he did so only in order to produce us.

God used evolution for creation . That is obvious. We're here. What is not obvious to you? Except you view God very differently than I do.

DAVID: I accept His method, as illogical as it may seem to you.

dhw: You not “accept” his method of preprogramming and/or dabbling every innovation, econiche etc.; you have imposed it on what you see, and the illogicality lies in the irreconcilability of the three factors listed above.

Of course I accept His result, and then propose reasonable explanations. You see irreconcilability when I do not. Your view of God is not my view as above.

DAVID: Why become more complex if it makes survival more difficult? Talk about illogical!

dhw: ... Once more: if you really believe that survivability plays no role, please explain why you think your God changed legs to fins, and extracted pre-baleen teeth and then a few million years later inserted baleens for the sake of complexity and not survival.

Of course, in creating new ecosystems, the organisms in that system must be capable of survival. God is not inconsistent in his methods.

dhw: And please explain the relevance of your statement that “humans survive better than any other animal on earth with the modifications as they came out of the trees.”

Answered immediately above.