Immunity: Gamma Delta T cells hunt with precision (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, November 15, 2018, 18:48 (1982 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: As usual, you switch from cells to molecules. But yes, “my” scientists believe that cells are intelligent even though they do not have brains. And why do you ignore all the attributes of intelligence that I have listed? Do you want me to bold them? Or do you not agree that the ability to learn and to make judgements denotes intelligence? Not comparable to human intelligence, of course, but not even you would limit the possession of intelligence to humans.

DAVID: Not a switch. All cellular activity is down through actions of molecules, which act purposefully, by design. The intelligence is in the design of molecular response, and not due to intelligent action by molecules.

dhw: You know as well as I do that there are tens of thousands of molecules in a single cell, and of course all cellular activity takes place through their actions. The question is what DETERMINES their actions. I do not say that my arms, legs, mouth, hands, fingers are intelligent. Their actions are determined by what I would like to think of as the intelligent “me”. Similarly I (and “my” scientists) propose that the actions of the molecules are determined by the intelligent cell or cell community. Now perhaps you will tell us why you do not regard the ability to learn and to make judgements as an attribute of intelligence.

Of course your statement about intelligence is a truism for anyone with a conscious state. But we look at the molecular reactions from the outside and do not see the controls.

Dr. Tour is a famous organic biomolecular scientist, an atheist Jew who accepted Christianity. His view of the cell:

https://www.hbu.edu/news-and-events/2018/11/13/world-renowned-scientist-dr-james-tour/

“'When I look at biological systems, and the amazing functionality of a biological system, even if we just take a cell – just a single cell – and you look at the mechanisms within that cell, it is utterly amazing. How can you look at that and just say, ’Oh well, 3.8 billion years ago, under a rock, it just got started up’ – that’s idiocy. It is amazing to look at that. You don’t even have to look at a human being with all of this. You just look at a single cell – a simple cell and the mechanisms within that cell are huge in complexity,” he said.

"Part of being a good scientist is realizing what is still unknown. And the more Tour has learned and studied, the more he is in wonder of creation. “Take any chemist, any biochemist, any evolutionary biologist, and say, ’I will give you all the components of a cell. I’ll give you all the nucleic acids, all the proteins, all the lipids and all the carbohydrates. Could you hook them up in the orders that they need to be hooked up?’ The answer is ’no.’ ’But even if I gave them to you in whatever order hooked up that you wanted, could you then put them together in the cell and have the cell operate?’ And the answer is ’no.’ Anybody who would claim otherwise is a rookie. They really don’t know what they’re talking about. We have no idea how to get this thing working. And when you put it all together, what is the spark of life that gets the thing running? How do you start this thing? Nobody knows. When something dies, it’s very hard to even explain what it is you’ve lost when the cell has stopped functioning. Try to restart that thing – very hard. You don’t even know.”

All he can study is the molecules. There is nothing else to study. In the cell as in the genome we do not know how controls are exerted. We can only look in from outside. We can reduce the reactions to each step. I frankly doubt we will ever fully understand how the
controls work. I view it as possible that all of the carefully orchestrated interactions are all that is needed to have a living cell emerge. I will not ever leave behind the concept that what we see is pure design and needed before each gap in the fossil record. Of course I switched from cells to molecules! I think your concept of complexity of the cell is superficial since you have not studied biochemistry. This is not meant to criticize you but to indicate that your theorizing is based on a flimsy basis of understanding of what is involved. I hope the Tour quote indicates that to you.