Chimps \'r\' not us: the role of gene enhancers (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, February 06, 2018, 16:08 (2483 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: […] Survivability is a minor evolutionary issue. Advancing complexity under God's guidance is a major issue.
dhw: …you seem to think that once an organism is more complex, it doesn’t need to survive! Survival is always the first priority, for humans as for every other organism.
DAVID: I can't seem to get you to the level of species survival, compared to individual survival.

I can’t seem to get you to realize that species consist of varying numbers of individuals. Individuals die, but so long as other individuals survive, the species survives. The invention of tools, weapons, clothes, use of fire improved the survivability of the species erectus for one to two million years. Survivability was not a minor issue or “of no issue”.

DAVID: There are two levels to think about. Humans are overly complex for simple survival skills and as a result they have taken over the Earth and now are trying to help species on the edge to avoid extinction, which is the natural course of events in the past. Complexity did not help many species in the past from extinction, which is why complexity may or may not go 'hand in hand' with improvement, despite the truth in that complexity usually implies/supplies improvement. "Improvement' implies a human judgment is employed in determining if improvement is present. Complexity is obvious in and of itself.

Some humans are trying to prevent species from dying out by ensuring that there are enough individuals left to keep the species going. Most humans are either indifferent or are actively engaged in activities that will cause extinction. I have no idea why you have raised this point. I agree with most of what you say about “improvement”, but one must always remember that an improvement in Year F may be of no use when conditions change in Year K.

dhw: If it’s reasonable for you to ask why sapiens took so long to use his newly enlarged brain, it can hardly be unreasonable to ask why your God took so long to fulfil his sole purpose of producing sapiens’ brain? (Both ask: why the “gap”?)
DAVID: [God] prefers evolving each step.

You obviously can’t find a reason beyond pretending you know God’s preferences. And yet you want a reason for the 270,000-year gap (which I have given you).

dhw: I have offered you several theistic reasons in the past: he didn’t know how to achieve his one and only purpose; he was experimenting; he didn’t think of sapiens till late on; producing sapiens was NOT his one and only purpose. All of them fit in with the “history”. You reject them all, and prefer the answer that God has his reasons, but you can’t think what they might be.

DAVID: I've told you His purpose is reaching the complexity of the human brain and its ability to study His works to the extent that we can understand them. Karen Armstrong's opinion that the Quran is the most advanced study by humans of God, states that we learn about Him only through His works. Yhis is one of the key anchors of my thinking about God.

You’ve told us that he watches us with interest, wants a relationship with us, and wants us to solve the problems he sets us, but I must confess I’d forgotten this particular reading of his mind: he designed the weaverbird’s nest, and faffed around with all kinds of brains for millions of years, because he wanted a brain that would study his works. And he preferred this indirect route to achieving what he wanted, because he preferred it.

As for learning about God, if he exists, there are only two possible ways of doing so: one is revelation, and the other is by studying his works. I don’t know if you have had any revelations, but I myself am stuck with studying his works, and I find that their history is that of a higgledy-piggledy bush of life, including humans, which might mean that his purpose was to create a higgledy-piggledy bush of life, including humans. You find it more reasonable to suppose that he created the weaverbird’s nest and umpteen hominid/hominin brains because his sole purpose was to produce the brain of Homo sapiens, though you can’t actually think of a reason why he chose to do it this way other than that he chose to do it this way.