Chimps \'r\' not us: the role of gene enhancers (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, February 01, 2018, 14:04 (2488 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I repeat: Our appearance cannot be seen as a necessary event, when compared to similar organisms (apes) who survived just as well as we did over the past few million years. You keep ignoring our specialness as a clue to God's purpose.

I repeat: weaverbird nests, monarch butterflies’ lifestyle, whales and duckbilled platypuses were not necessary events either (as bacteria have survived perfectly well since the year dot). And you keep ignoring their specialness as a clue to your God’s purpose – they must be special since you think your God specially preprogrammed or dabbled them.

dhw: You said he needed complexity to achieve his goals. Why does it make no sense to suggest that his goals were improved chances of survival/improved living conditions?

DAVID: 99% of all earlier more complex species are dead. His obvious main goal is/was humans.

You seem to have settled on “main” goal, which means he has other goals, but when I asked you what they were, there were none. The fact that 99% of species are dead makes it equally “obvious” that he wanted a continuous process of change. And you still haven’t answered why it makes more sense for him to want complexity for the sake of complexity rather than complexity for the sake of improved survivability and improved living conditions. Wouldn’t you say that human complexity has improved our survivability and our living conditions?

DAVID: [..] Doesn't it occur to you that you have it all backward and survivability was of no issue to the Homo branch?

dhw: Do you honestly believe that the Homo branch was not and is not concerned with survival? Tell that to the Rohingya and the millions of homos who have died and are still dying from disease, starvation, war, natural disasters, so-called ethnic cleansing. […] Most of our so-called civilisation has grown out of improving our chances of survival and improving our living conditions. Survivability is ALWAYS the first priority. […]

DAVID: You have dragged in current events, which are horrible, but they do not change the point that prior to 30,000 years ago we lived in caves in survival mode despite our huge but unused brain that stayed at survival mode. We had to learn to use it. Of course stone age folks individually wanted to survive. I'm not discussing the issue at that level.

Earlier you said that “survivability is a minor evolutionary issue”, and above you say “survivability was of no issue to the Homo branch”. Now you tell me that the Homo branch spent 270,000 years focusing on nothing but survivability! And I point out to you that survivability is still the main issue for Homo today, but you don’t want to discuss that either. So when was survivability of no issue for the Homo branch?

As for the gap, I have offered you my explanation umpteen times, and have done so yet again under “possibly we first appeared earlier”.