Dualism versus materialism (Identity)

by dhw, Saturday, July 29, 2017, 08:49 (2673 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: In my view the brain as a receiver of consciousness can only use consciousness to the degree that it is enlarged and more complex.
dhw: First quote: you “keep telling me” you/your consciousness use your brain, and now you tell me your brain “uses” you/your consciousness! Yet again: according to your dualism, it is your will/imagination/inventiveness that issue instructions to your brain, which can only carry them out if it is large and/or complex enough to do so.
DAVID: I keep telling you the whole arrangement is seamless. It is an equal back and forth activity as I visualize it. I get to my consciousness through the activity of my brain. I formulate an action and through my consciousness I control my brain to do it.

Yes, you/your consciousness formulate an idea or the idea of an action and control your brain to do it. We agree. But you and your consciousness are one, and so I still don’t know what you mean by you/your consciousness “getting to” you/your consciousness through the brain. However, in the light of what follows, it probably doesn’t matter.

DAVID: The artifacts tell us what each brain size is capable of conceiving.

But according to you it is NOT the brain that does the conceiving. It is the “soul”/you/your consciousness/your self. That is the dichotomy in your thinking that you refuse to recognize. The artifacts tell us what the “soul” conceived, and what the brain size was capable of implementing.

DAVID: The artifacts tell us what a new sized brain can do.

Yes, yes, yes. What it can DO, which in your dualistic world is what your “soul” has conceived.

DAVID: A smaller brain does not know what it does not know.

According to your dualism it is the “soul” that invents and knows. The brain, whether smaller or larger, “knows” nothing of the new idea until it is told by the “soul”.

DAVID: Only a larger brain can conceive of newer ideas to invent.

The final contradiction. You have always argued that the “soul” conceives of ideas, but now you have turned full circle and it is the brain that conceives of ideas. You may be right. Welcome to the world of materialism.

DAVID: I think we should end this. We will never agree.

It’s a pity, because these contradictions actually distract us from the fascinating conflict between the two schools of thought. When there is a lull, I hope to return to my efforts to find some kind of reconciliation between them.