Dualism versus materialism (Identity)

by dhw, Friday, July 28, 2017, 11:46 (696 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: I keep telling you my self/soul/consciousness uses my brain like you and I use our computers. I can only get to my consciousness through the functions of my brain. (dhw’s bold)
dhw: What do you mean by “get to”? If you/your consciousness USES your brain, how can you/your consciousness only “get to” you/your consciousness through the functions of your brain?
DAVID: I believe the brain receives the mechanism of consciousness. Therefore I 'get to' (have to use) my brain to run my consciousness. But at the same time I am my self/soul/consciousness

Now you/your consciousness have to use your brain to “run” you/your consciousness? What does that mean? Once more: your dualistic belief is that you/your consciousness/your “soul” provides the ideas. It uses your brain to gather information and to give material implementation to your ideas. You keep agreeing to this, and then trying to wriggle out of it with nebulous terms like “allow”, “get to”, and now “run”.

DAVID: In my view the brain as a receiver of consciousness can only use consciousness to the degree that it is enlarged and more complex.

First quote: you “keep telling me” you/your consciousness use your brain, and now you tell me your brain “uses” you/your consciousness! Yet again: according to your dualism, it is your will/imagination/inventiveness that issue instructions to your brain, which can only carry them out if it is large and/or complex enough to do so.

DAVID: Therefore habilis is incapable of imagining or inventing what erectus can. This is what the facts show based on the artifacts each species produced.

No, the facts only show the implementation of the ideas. Yet again: According to your beliefs, the bigger brain is not necessary for the imagining of ideas (which is done by the “soul”), but it is necessary for the implementation. The idea is what demands the expansion of the brain: pre-erectus had the idea, and the implementation led to the expanded brain of erectus. If new ideas are the product of the soul, it makes no sense to say they cannot be imagined until the brain is enlarged.

dhw: If the “soul” is the source of ideas, the complexity of our brain’s wiring “allows for” the IMPLEMENTATION of those ideas. It does not “allow for” the ideas themselves (our advanced thinking), which you claim is the product of the “soul”. We are talking about immaterial ideas (product of the “soul”) and the material implementation of those ideas (product of the brain).
DAVID: As I interpret this I agree.

Same process for expansion. Ideas (soul) followed by implementation (brain). New ideas do not depend on the expansion of the brain.

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