Current science; fraudulent thinking (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, May 24, 2015, 19:06 (3470 days ago) @ dhw

dhw:Only atheists with their equally irrational belief that a universe can spring ex nihilo can claim that time began with this universe. You both shoot yourselves in the foot: you because you cannot reconcile belief in a ‘before' with belief that time did not exist; they because by denying the possibility of earlier universes, they increase the odds against chance producing life.-Not true re' atheists alone! St. Thomas states time began with this universe, and Thomists base their philosophy on cause and effect. Read Ed Fesser to see this.
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> I have fallen behind in this discussion, but the exchanges between David and Tony suggest to me that David is beginning to see the flaw in his thinking: 
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> DAVID: God had to take timing events into account, but again not in the way we think about time. 
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> dhw: Since by your own admission we cannot know how God thinks about anything, you are in no position to claim that he has a different concept of time from our own. Therefore you have no justification for asserting that time as a sequence from past to present to future, cause and effect, did not exist before the Big Bang (if it happened).-I really know of no philosopher who thinks of a 'time' before our space time. The atheists want it "ex nihilo", therefore no 'time' before our time which agrees with me. And back to St. Thomas, an uncaused cause in timeless. I'm with him. I view your foot as having the hole in it!