Current science; fraudulent thinking (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, May 20, 2015, 19:18 (3474 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Space and time began with the Big Bang, and were created by it. Energy/matter in my view had to pre-exist it timelessly or there have been a series of Big Bangs.
dhw: Even if the Big Bang happened (it is a theory, not a fact), the moment you argue that something pre-existed it, you are embracing that concept of time which entails a progression from before to now to after, from past to present to future, from cause to effect to cause to effect etc. By hopefully shoving in the word “timelessly” you are glossing over the problem, especially since the word “timeless” is often used to denote unending, or independent of the passage of time. (Beethoven's music is timeless). Since we do not and cannot know what happened before the Big Bang, any definitive statement such as space and time did not exist before it, is clearly pure speculation. -DAVID: That may be your extraordinary viewpoint, and I think you will find few to accept it. Our time and space began at the Big Bang, which is, yes, a theory but there is no current accepted alternative.-This is akin to the circular fallacies that you are so very reluctant to condemn. If the Big Bang theory is true, of course OUR time and space began with it, but that does not mean there was NO time or space before the Big Bang. You have ignored the first part of my post, and so I have repeated it. According to my concept of time, you cannot have a before-the-BB if time began with the BB. There is of course a common view that the universe came into being ex nihilo, which would confirm your belief that there was no time beforehand, but would run contrary to your belief that there was pre-existing matter and energy. No doubt that is why you try to wriggle out of the paradox by inserting the word “timeless”. Perhaps it would help if you would let us have your definition of time.