What makes life vital (Introduction)

by David Turell , Friday, March 06, 2015, 01:03 (3550 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: There is no denying bacteria appear to make decisions; the issue is whether those decisions are automatic based on genomic information or are the result of a sentient response. No one can give a provable answer, it is all a matter of opinion. I simply have concluded my opinion and will stick with it. Obviously you are free to stick with yours.
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> dhw: I am much happier with this acknowledgement that it is a matter of opinion than I am with bald statements such as bacteria are automatons / are not conscious / do not think.-I am happy you are happy, but remember, no one can tell and at this time no one can know which of the two decision/opinions are correct.-
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> DAVID: I can see why you remain neutral on the source of a thinking mechanism. It is still 'thinking' or the appearance of thinking. Information can not appear de novo for conceptual thought is not material. It is based on information to be analyzed and information to do the analysis.
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> dhw: If you believe in the Big Bang, the essence of which is that the universe had a beginning, by definition this has to be information appearing de novo.-Exactly. At issue is the source of that information. Information is not material. It is concepts and instructions.-> dhw: If the first cause is energy endlessly transmuting itself into matter, whether consciously (theistic) or unconsciously (atheistic), information will also constantly be appearing de novo.-You are playing the something-from-nothing game. We can analyze the Standard Model of the particles and see patterns. We literally do not know the underlying information hat creates these patterns of relationship. Put another way, we can understand the lawful relationships of the Standard Model, but we don't know why they have to be that way to begin with. I agree that there is a 'source' that is creating the information, but to expect such complex information to be generated from the amorphous energy plasma at the beginning of the Big Bang is very unreasonable if not totally impossible.-
> dhw: Analysis, however, clearly requires some kind of consciousness (or, as you put it, the information to do the analysis), but when, how, and in what form that consciousness came into being, nobody knows. This last comment applies equally to your God and to living organisms.- Intelligence had to come into being before anything else.From your viewpoint, it came from no where. I'll stick with cause and effect, and IMHO your proposal requires an intelligent first cause. As for bacterial analytic capacity, studies in analytic chemistry show how they do it in being attracted to food from the chemicals given off. X-ray diffraction and biochemical studies show how energy is provided to run the rotors of the flagella. The bi-lipid membranes of the outer surface have fully delineated biochemical processes for engulfing food, and then digesting it. All implanted reactions run from the info in the genome.