Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! (The limitations of science)
Matt:On the contrary, as Romansh has already shown you, there are dozens of ideas about how speciation occurs, the simplest definition I've seen is one I've already provided: A sub group can no longer form viable offspring with its parent group. The talkorigins link provides an encyclopedia of examples. -Examples of conjectures. > > > > Matt:But if an event never happens that puts pressure against those alleles, evolution does not happen! This echoes a previous post, where I stated to prove that epigenetics is a stronger source of evolutionary change, you needed to be able to demonstrate that an organism exhibits enough of a change as to be called a different species, without the presence of selective pressure. > > > > > Matt: That line. In red. Right there. Stop. We're in the same arena here. -What we are agreeing on here is that NS is a final arbitor of forms that it receives passively and the it acts on what it receives. I am splitting the whole process into succeeding parts, and you want to lump it all into one item. Yes, NS only acts at the end of the process and does nothing until then.-> > > Matt:Maybe a football (soccer) analogy is in order: Natural selection is the goalie. It doesn't matter at all what happens on the other side of the field, except in the ultra-rare instances when the ball gets past the goalie. > > > > That I can accept as an analogy. Note the goalie sits on his hands until the ball finally starts to come his way. All of the preliminary action is elsewhere. His stopping the ball or missing it is a final step. > > Matt:If you accept that analogy, than you accept this extension: > > The only thing that matters in any game of soccer: the balls that hit the back of the net. Everything else? Unimportant.-Your interpretation. Of course NS is a final arbitor, and is active as a goalie, but the goalie controls nothing of the action until the ball comes at him. Everything passive from his viewpoint until that final moment. NS has no control until the end point. Waht NS does matters very much, but it cannot control what comes at it for selection. We havee two different ways of disecting the process.
Complete thread:
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
xeno6696,
2011-12-05, 02:42
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
David Turell,
2011-12-05, 05:59
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
xeno6696,
2011-12-05, 14:15
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
David Turell,
2011-12-05, 15:39
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
David Turell,
2011-12-05, 17:59
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
Balance_Maintained,
2011-12-05, 19:24
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
David Turell,
2011-12-05, 19:46
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
Balance_Maintained,
2011-12-05, 21:08
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
xeno6696,
2011-12-06, 00:14
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
Balance_Maintained,
2011-12-06, 00:29
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... - xeno6696, 2011-12-06, 20:03
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
Balance_Maintained,
2011-12-06, 00:29
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
xeno6696,
2011-12-06, 00:14
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
Balance_Maintained,
2011-12-05, 21:08
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
David Turell,
2011-12-05, 19:46
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
Balance_Maintained,
2011-12-05, 19:24
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
xeno6696,
2011-12-06, 00:39
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2011-12-06, 00:47
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2011-12-06, 01:23
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2011-12-06, 01:51
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - David Turell, 2011-12-06, 05:06
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2011-12-06, 01:51
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
dhw,
2011-12-06, 19:55
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2011-12-06, 20:59
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-17, 23:26
- Possible goldilocks planet - xeno6696, 2014-04-18, 03:55
- Possible goldilocks planet -
dhw,
2014-04-18, 13:08
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-18, 16:09
- Possible goldilocks planet -
xeno6696,
2014-04-18, 22:42
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-19, 03:18
- Possible goldilocks planet -
xeno6696,
2014-04-20, 05:46
- Possible goldilocks planet - David Turell, 2014-04-20, 06:08
- Possible goldilocks planet -
xeno6696,
2014-04-20, 05:46
- Possible goldilocks planet -
dhw,
2014-04-20, 11:42
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-20, 16:23
- Possible goldilocks planet -
dhw,
2014-04-21, 13:10
- Possible goldilocks planet - David Turell, 2014-04-21, 15:56
- Possible goldilocks planet -
dhw,
2014-04-21, 13:10
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-20, 16:23
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-19, 03:18
- Possible goldilocks planet -
xeno6696,
2014-04-18, 22:42
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-18, 16:42
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-18, 16:49
- Possible goldilocks planet - David Turell, 2014-04-18, 19:59
- Possible goldilocks planet -
xeno6696,
2014-04-18, 23:18
- Possible goldilocks planet - romansh, 2014-04-19, 00:38
- Possible goldilocks planet - David Turell, 2014-04-19, 03:43
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-18, 16:49
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-18, 16:09
- Possible goldilocks planet -
David Turell,
2014-04-17, 23:26
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-18, 03:59
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
dhw,
2014-04-18, 13:03
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-18, 23:04
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-19, 03:35
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-19, 04:39
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-19, 06:47
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-19, 15:29
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-19, 16:35
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-19, 17:47
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - David Turell, 2014-04-19, 23:19
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-19, 17:47
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-19, 16:35
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-21, 01:51
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - David Turell, 2014-04-21, 05:54
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-19, 15:29
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
dhw,
2014-04-20, 11:59
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-20, 16:56
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-20, 19:54
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-21, 01:56
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - David Turell, 2014-04-21, 05:58
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-21, 01:56
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-20, 19:54
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-20, 20:59
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-20, 21:42
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-20, 23:33
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - xeno6696, 2014-04-21, 01:31
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-21, 02:32
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-21, 04:05
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - David Turell, 2014-04-21, 06:06
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-21, 04:05
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-21, 01:36
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-21, 05:42
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-21, 15:54
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - xeno6696, 2014-04-21, 16:00
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - David Turell, 2014-04-21, 16:20
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-21, 15:54
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-21, 05:42
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-20, 23:33
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
dhw,
2014-04-21, 13:19
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - xeno6696, 2014-04-21, 16:07
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-21, 16:38
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! - dhw, 2014-04-22, 14:11
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-20, 21:42
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
romansh,
2014-04-20, 16:56
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-19, 06:47
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-19, 04:39
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2014-04-19, 03:35
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2014-04-18, 23:04
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
dhw,
2014-04-18, 13:03
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2011-12-06, 20:59
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
David Turell,
2011-12-06, 01:23
- Whoa! Whoa! dhw take notice!!! -
xeno6696,
2011-12-06, 00:47
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
David Turell,
2011-12-05, 17:59
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
David Turell,
2011-12-05, 15:39
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
xeno6696,
2011-12-05, 14:15
- Core Accretion Gaining Steam... -
David Turell,
2011-12-05, 05:59