Science of Self (Humans)

by David Turell @, Monday, March 17, 2014, 17:23 (3902 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: If consciousness is immaterial, yes of course it has to interact with the physical, because we live in a physical world. So what doesn't make sense to you? Cause and effect will still apply whether consciousness is material or immaterial. However, if it is immaterial, there is the possibility ... as David has argued in his post of 11 March at 23.13 ... that it can make its own decisions independently of materials (and can even influence those materials). Then it becomes a question of the extent to which its decisions are influenced by other causes (experiences, the environment, upbringing, accident, past history), and that is where I chicken out. -To correct this entry dhw has my comment date wrong. It is 3/15/14:-"This observation point to the fact that we are experiencing our consciousness in the same somewhat removed fashion. And the only way I can put it together is to assume that as in the material world there is this strange quantum effect, and it must also be operational at the brain/consciousness level to explain why we cannot fully explain it. Which makes me comfortable with the idea that the dualism proposal suggests two parts of the same quantum brain, at two levels. The determinism is in the way the electrobiochemical mechanism must function to provide the result we have. We determine the conscious results we want, but the underlying mechanism runs on its own, responding to us. Why else should the brain exhibit the plasticity and alteration of function and neurons based on our repeated practice with the brain, as in playing an instrument or a sport. We have a very definite effect on brain function as we now see how plastic the brain really is. A fully deterministic brain would not exhibit this flexibility. We are truly in charge."-And I would add not completely in charge. As we modify our activities the brain responds to accommodate us, but it does it automatically, just as our heart beats without our interference, and we breathe without thinking about it. These built-in automatic responses allow us to live without the interference of having to adjust our bodies by our own volition. Our bodies have an adaptablity way beyond just enlarging muscles by weight lifting. I look at it as a partnership, just as we have a huge number of friendly and not-so-friendly bacteria on board, generally working with us.-To use an other example, just when did you think about adapting the composition of your urine to fit your fluid balance in your body? Think about the brain and its plasticity in the same way. Our brain works in partnership with us to create an emergent consciousness adapted to our needs, according to our experiences and uses of the brain. In this way I think one can accept compatibilism. We do most of the determinism with our free will.


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