Ruth & Rindler (General)

by David Turell , Thursday, August 08, 2013, 15:50 (4123 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: As in my discussion with Ruth, I find the term "more real" extremely dubious. Try stepping in front of a bus and then tell me that QR is more real than our physical reality. That was why I asked Ruth for criteria by which to measure reality. She and I eventually agreed that quantum reality was less MANIFEST than everyday reality. We might speculate that quantum reality has a greater influence on spacetime reality than vice versa (e.g. if you are thinking of it as the source of consciousness or of the material universe), or may be more lasting than spacetime reality (e.g. if you are thinking of an afterlife). 
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> I find David's dialysis image extremely helpful. Maybe we just don't need the confusing term "separation", though. It could be argued that ALL entities are separate. We only get to know "bits and pieces" of whatever we perceive ... from inanimate objects to live people. I would suggest that quantum reality is less manifest, less accessible, less definable than our everyday reality, but not "more real" and not "separate".-This is why Ruth introduced the discussion of what is a table. Is there a table? QM forces us to think at that level. Review the background. Classical physicists are dragged kicking and screaming into the quantum world. Einstein says can't be. The Copenhagen interpretation is a bastardized why of getting by. Ruth is stepping back, as have others, and says there has got to be a better way of looking at this.-Your problem with Ruth's writings is a relection of our human confusion over the whole subject. Remember Ruth quoted Feynman's famous quote to me. If a Nobel laureate is confused no wonder you are.