Hitchens addresses Intelligent Design (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, October 23, 2012, 22:19 (4391 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: This is casuistry. On one side is the concept of design, on the other the concept of chance. On one side is conscious energy, on the other unconscious energy.-DAVID: Good. I will accept the chance side of the equation as unconscious energy, and add that unconsciousness implies no pattern, therefore totally unorganized energy in a random state. And you will then assert that this amorphous mass of energy somehow got organized into the classes of particles we have found in scientific atom smashing. In your chance state there are no organized classes of symmetrical particles. Chance energy has to be raw energy, lacking all organization, and by chance gets to what we see today. To me a pipe dream.-"And you will then assert..." No, David, what I assert over and over again is that I find BOTH scenarios equally impossible to believe! That is the nature of agnosticism. Matt appears finally to have grasped it. He writes, rather movingly:-"For a blinding second, the incredulity [I'd suggest incredibility here] of chance or a conscious creator enveloped my mind in such a way that the thoughts were tangible things: and the incredulity [OK here] was equal. I get it now: I really do."-But you don't, David. So here are the two questions and answers:-1) Do I believe that chance could create the complexities of life and consciousness? Answer: no. I find it incredible.
2) Do I believe in an eternal, non-created intelligence vast enough to create universes, and yet also able to assemble the tiny blobs of material necessary for life and consciousness? Answer: no. I find it incredible.-Agnosticism for me is not believing in chance and not believing in a designer: as Matt puts it, equal incredulity. I accept all your arguments against chance, and I accept all the arguments against an eternally existing universal consciousness. One side must be right, and so while not believing, I do not DISbelieve (i.e. I do not say chance is definitely wrong, or God definitely doesn't exist). I can only wait and see, or wait and not see!