Free Will, Consciousness, Identity (Identity)
This is indeed a clue that our consciousness depends on biological matter. On the other hand, mystic and psychic experiences (such as NDEs) are a clue that our biological matter acts as a receiver, not a transmitter, and that consciousness and identity can survive the death of the brain. Neither clue is decisive, and so I keep an open mind. > > Frankly I read this with not a little dismay dhw. NDEs OBEs and psychic phenomna are like are like phlogiston and luminousferous aether, once we turn on the scientific scrutiny they are not there.-NDE's are a strange bird. VanLommel, the famous author of the Lancet article on the issue, thinks like dhw, but more positively. I've read his subsequent book which is even more positive. The problem with NDE's is the person who has the experience often gains knowledge he should not have. There are a plethora of hospiced reports on this, and other authors than van Lommel who are convinced. My own immediate background is as a physician having had disucssion with 10 patients who had such experiences. The two keys are: 1) they are not hallucinations, and I know one when I hear one; 2)All of the NDE'rs talk to dead people, never live ones, when they do have communcation, which they all say is telpathic. It is a very strange phenomenon, and is clearly documented to go back to the beginnings of true civilization. The Tibetan book of the Dead deals with it, for example.-So there has been scientific scrutiny by a fair number of M.D.s with books written and much ongoing research. I suggest you do more reading than Blakemore, and I offer references if you wish. I'm with dhw using an open mind.
Complete thread:
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-08, 20:12
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-10, 03:05
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-10, 04:42
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-10, 11:50
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - David Turell, 2012-07-10, 16:01
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-10, 11:50
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-10, 20:40
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-11, 01:39
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-11, 15:15
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-11, 19:29
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-12, 06:29
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-12, 13:56
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-12, 15:17
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-12, 17:50
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-12, 17:56
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-13, 12:23
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - David Turell, 2012-07-13, 15:53
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-16, 08:22
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-21, 17:58
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-21, 18:19
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-21, 18:50
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-21, 20:30
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - xeno6696, 2012-08-09, 22:13
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-21, 20:30
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-21, 18:50
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-21, 18:19
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-21, 17:58
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-13, 12:23
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-12, 17:56
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-12, 17:50
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-12, 15:17
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-12, 13:56
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-12, 06:29
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-11, 19:29
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-11, 17:26
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-11, 23:43
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-13, 12:26
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-21, 18:34
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - dhw, 2012-07-22, 18:47
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-24, 01:52
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-24, 13:19
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-25, 02:40
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-25, 15:05
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-28, 20:32
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-28, 20:33
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-29, 14:17
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-29, 15:53
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-29, 17:41
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - David Turell, 2012-07-30, 01:25
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - dhw, 2012-07-30, 19:35
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-29, 17:41
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-30, 00:32
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - David Turell, 2012-07-30, 02:04
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-30, 20:11
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - dhw, 2012-08-03, 17:38
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-29, 15:53
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-29, 14:17
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-28, 20:33
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-28, 20:32
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-25, 15:05
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-07-25, 02:40
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-08-09, 22:10
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-10, 14:55
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-12, 18:13
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-19, 15:27
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-19, 21:12
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-20, 02:12
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-20, 20:44
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-21, 09:23
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-21, 16:53
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-22, 09:43
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-22, 15:24
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - David Turell, 2012-08-23, 15:25
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-23, 17:09
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-23, 22:06
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-25, 12:19
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-25, 15:42
- Free Will, Consciousness, Gullibility -
David Turell,
2012-08-25, 15:58
- Free Will, Consciousness, Choice - David Turell, 2012-09-26, 18:17
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-26, 17:24
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-26, 18:54
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-08-26, 23:55
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - David Turell, 2012-08-27, 15:54
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
Balance_Maintained,
2012-08-26, 23:55
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-26, 18:54
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-29, 22:55
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-09-01, 11:31
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-09-06, 19:29
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-09-09, 14:23
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-09-09, 15:20
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - David Turell, 2012-09-14, 17:58
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-09-09, 15:20
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-09-09, 14:23
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-09-06, 19:29
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-09-01, 11:31
- Free Will, Consciousness, Gullibility -
David Turell,
2012-08-25, 15:58
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-25, 15:42
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-25, 12:19
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-23, 22:06
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-22, 15:24
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-22, 09:43
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-21, 16:53
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-21, 09:23
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-20, 20:44
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-20, 02:12
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-19, 21:12
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-08-19, 15:27
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-12, 18:13
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-08-10, 14:55
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-24, 13:19
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-21, 18:34
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
dhw,
2012-07-13, 12:26
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - xeno6696, 2012-07-11, 23:50
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-11, 23:43
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-11, 15:15
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-11, 01:39
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-07-10, 04:42
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-12-28, 21:57
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-12-29, 21:01
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-12-30, 00:24
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-12-30, 01:32
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity - David Turell, 2012-12-30, 14:54
- Free Will, for romansh -
David Turell,
2013-01-01, 14:34
- Free Will, for romansh -
romansh,
2013-01-01, 17:43
- Free Will, for romansh -
David Turell,
2013-01-01, 20:36
- Free Will, for romansh -
romansh,
2013-01-01, 21:00
- Free Will, for romansh -
David Turell,
2013-01-01, 21:30
- Free Will, for romansh -
romansh,
2013-01-01, 22:14
- Free Will, for romansh - David Turell, 2013-01-02, 00:03
- Free Will, for romansh -
David Turell,
2013-01-03, 15:17
- Free Will, for romansh -
romansh,
2013-01-03, 20:48
- Free Will, more debate - David Turell, 2013-01-12, 18:32
- Free Will, for romansh -
romansh,
2013-01-03, 20:48
- Free Will, for romansh -
romansh,
2013-01-01, 22:14
- Free Will, for romansh -
David Turell,
2013-01-01, 21:30
- Free Will, for romansh -
romansh,
2013-01-01, 21:00
- Free Will, for romansh -
David Turell,
2013-01-01, 20:36
- Free Will, for romansh -
romansh,
2013-01-01, 17:43
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-12-30, 01:32
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
David Turell,
2012-12-30, 00:24
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
romansh,
2012-12-29, 21:01
- Free Will, Consciousness, Identity -
xeno6696,
2012-07-10, 03:05