ABEL\'S UNIVERSE (General)

by dhw, Saturday, November 19, 2011, 17:44 (4562 days ago) @ Abel

dhw: Predation on Earth is the invention of god(s) or of godless Nature. Since you do not believe in godless Nature on Planet Earth, (although you do believe in it on Planet X), what does the invention of predatory self-interest – in my view, the basis of evil – tell us about the nature of your god(s)? Let me start you off with a simpler question which should elicit a direct answer: are your gods meat-eaters or vegetarians?

PART ONE
ABEL: There is nothing evil in what animal predators do.

Of course there isn’t. Evil is the invention of your gods (if they exist) or of humans (if they don't). You have missed the point, so let me spell it out to you. According to your theology, the gods created life on earth. They deliberately introduced predation, which entails killing in order to survive, and that means pursuing self-interest regardless of the cost to others. When your gods finally got round to making us humans, this same principle – which they had made a precondition for survival – became the root of evil. In your own words: human “brains can violate any instinct though a "just us" system created by its' own self-interested reason”. Humans extended the principle of predatory self-interest, but they did not invent it. Your gods, who were themselves descended from predators, deliberately introduced it to life on Earth. What does this tell us about their nature? Or are you trying to say that when your gods created predators and then humans, they didn’t realize that predatory self-interest would result in evil? Indeed, I wonder how they themselves escaped the ill effects of the selfsame principle they had inherited on Planet X. Were they all 100% pure? (Perhaps we’re slowly heading towards the origin of Satan, whom you introduced to us a few posts ago.)

PART TWO
ABEL: The Elohim (angels) eat food processed from vegetable sources. So they are vegetarian.

I share Tony's confusion. I asked about the gods, so are angels the same as the gods who evolved spontaneously from the predators on Planet X and came down to Earth to create us? If so, does this place you, an archangel, above the gods in the divine hierarchy? Please answer yes or no, as we have too many other things to discuss.

PART THREE
ABEL: And dhw, if you ever saw what was left of a child who was born without the ability to suffer (feel pain), then you would not wonder why there was suffering etc. […] There is a need for suffering or it would not exist.

Not long ago, Abel, you accused me of distorting your ideas – though like Tony I have reproduced your exact words in support of what I’ve written. Please tell me where I have wondered “why there was suffering” or said that there was no need for the ability to feel pain. The subject was the need for predation, and in the post to which you’re replying, I wrote: “Of course life and Nature are based on the concept of equilibrium, but you don’t need predation for equilibrium, for suffering, or for death.” You have quoted this yourself, and you then ignore it! Once more you’ve delivered a message which I’m sure none of us would disagree with (like your lengthy sermon on human stupidity), in order to knock down ideas that you yourself have erected. Straw men generally get short shrift on this forum.