Evolution v Creationism: guided evolution? dhw? (Evolution)

by dhw, Saturday, March 28, 2015, 16:49 (3317 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Well, my IM is semi-autonomous because a totally autonomous IM might head in a weird direction that God didn't like.
dhw: Not a reason for rejecting autonomy. Your God could always dabble if he didn't like the direction - either by fiddling with organisms, or by doing a Chicxulub.-DAVID: As for Chicx, He'll have to overcome His own human's abilities. We are planning to defend ourselves from all incomers with rockets and atomic bombs. Semi-autonomous means God can guide or dabble, so you are quibbling.-Autonomy doesn't mean you can do whatever you like. Even if we have free will, as you believe, we can't will ourselves into becoming elephants or into dissolving the prison walls. In exactly the same way, the autonomous IM would be capable of adapting and innovating, independently of any preprogramming, but not independently of its own limitations or of the environment (which could include a dabbling God). Your “semi-autonomous” is the real quibble.-DAVID: Well, we can't live forever. We have to make room for others. This current human race cannot go on forever, but I'll bet there will be others at a different time and a different galaxy.
dhw: I was referring to Tony's belief in a paradise on earth that would last forever. But I thought you believed in an afterlife (which is certainly the implication of NDEs). Do you not see such an afterlife as being forever?-DAVID: Afterlife forever? Yes. I was discussing the living body vessel dying. See below: we'll meet past and future human souls.-Forever. An endless world and endless self. A truly appalling prospect. Probably even more appalling than a world and self that end.-dhw: As regards "others", is your bet that your God will really produce another human race, or is your money on totally different forms of life?
DAVID: You are the one who first proposed God doing it over and over in your view of previous eternities. The Milky Way is a galaxy made to produce humans as planned by God. Did He do it before? I think so. Will He do it again with a galaxy that produced humans? I think so. When this universe dies in 100 billion years will He produce another universe? I think so. Will there be more humans? Yes. The key is consciousness which can relate to consciousness. We are the only creatures who can recognize and relate to God. It seems as if that is what He wants. A warning: I don't know God's personal thoughts or his personality. I can only guess at it with what I can analyze.-All of us are limited to guesswork. Your acknowledgement that your God might have produced earlier universes and might go on producing universes runs parallel to my suggestion that first-cause non-conscious energy is capable of doing the same thing. With an eternity of universes, which you now accept as theoretically possible, you have an infinite number of material combinations which eventually - during eternity - might produce the one that results in life and evolution. An atheist's dream.