Ruth & Rindler (General)

by dhw, Thursday, August 08, 2013, 12:35 (3920 days ago) @ David Turell

bbella: dhw, yes, I am trying to wrap my mind around the idea of a separated Quantum Layer of reality that is outside our own. All along, as I've studied QM, I've imagined it as a layer of reality that is as integral and as real to the physical reality as our unseen cells are to our physical body (only thing I can think of to compare). Just because we can't see something doesn't mean it's not there or that it's not just as real as our physical reality. If our physical reality actually emanates from the QR, which I suspect is so, I would think the QR is more real than our physical reality (if there is any qualitative differences, which I suspect there isn't). It is more that our perspective is limited by our sight and mind.-DAVID: I think you've got it right. The separation is that quanta pass easily into the reality we perceive, but it difficult for us to see the all of the other side all at once. We get glimpses of bits and pieces. And again you are correct that QM is the source of and underlies our reality, and therefore is the primary reality. I view the separation as a semipermeable membrane as used in dialysis: most material can go back and forth, but the setup is rigged so certain dissolved molecules move best in one direction.-As in my discussion with Ruth, I find the term "more real" extremely dubious. Try stepping in front of a bus and then tell me that QR is more real than our physical reality. That was why I asked Ruth for criteria by which to measure reality. She and I eventually agreed that quantum reality was less MANIFEST than everyday reality. We might speculate that quantum reality has a greater influence on spacetime reality than vice versa (e.g. if you are thinking of it as the source of consciousness or of the material universe), or may be more lasting than spacetime reality (e.g. if you are thinking of an afterlife). -I find David's dialysis image extremely helpful. Maybe we just don't need the confusing term "separation", though. It could be argued that ALL entities are separate. We only get to know "bits and pieces" of whatever we perceive ... from inanimate objects to live people. I would suggest that quantum reality is less manifest, less accessible, less definable than our everyday reality, but not "more real" and not "separate".