The Sermon Part 2 (Agnosticism)

by dhw, Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 12:40 (5959 days ago) @ David Turell

David: "It appears you want to have faith, but with guarantees as to what you have faith in." - There's no denying that of all the options, a loving God would be the most desirable ... I expect even atheists would agree. The prospect of a happy afterlife, with all victims being compensated for their suffering, and with all the lucky ones continuing to enjoy a new form of existence ... yes, I'd like that. But wanting something is no basis for faith. I have to be careful here, because under no circumstances do I want to attack your faith, or BBella's or Mark's. I can only explain why I can't go with you, and it's not because I want guarantees. It's because I can't force myself to ignore what I regard as evidence. The course of world and individual history suggests to me that there is no pattern: that animals and humans go their own way, and chance in various forms plays a huge part. Hence the apparent randomness of good fortune and misery (the latter all too often being the fate of innocent victims).You say that "God is purposely concealed". Maybe. Or maybe he's indifferent. Or maybe he's not there. These last two options provide a clear explanation of the suffering which is real and present and undeniable, but faith in a loving God demands belief in a master plan which is way beyond our comprehension. Since we can't understand it, and have no evidence of it, it's akin to belief in chance as the creator of life. One or other may be true, but both demand a degree of credulity which is beyond my reach, and that is why I have asked repeatedly how those on either side can have an "inner conviction" that their beliefs are true, in spite of the lack of evidence. You have given me an answer: "BBella and I have made up our own concepts that we are comfortable with." Atheists have done the same. Once again you are right: "Either you can do that or you can't." I can't have faith in something I have made up. - You say: "I don't [see] any way past that point." Nor do I, but these exchanges of views and experiences are valuable to me, and who knows what long-term effects they may have on my thinking? Perhaps on other people's too. For what it's worth, I find it consoling to know that when I die, either it will all be over ... which won't be a problem, since we'll be oblivious ... or it will continue, which may be exciting.