Addendum: Atheism and morality (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 15:20 (5126 days ago) @ xeno6696

MATT: As (somewhat) of a counter to dhw; children do seem to have an innate sense for "justice," though justice as interpreted by a small child is always what is important to it. In this dhw and I fully agree. -Yes, I think we start off selfish, and gradually learn to consider others.-MATT: I do not believe there is a true "moral sense" as in an instinct; I think the society we have won today was a slow evolution from the raw ancient lust to tyranny, to one where the individual is respected above all. 
-I agree with you about the lack of moral instinct initially, but I'm not convinced about the "raw ancient lust to tyranny" phase of evolution. We can learn a lot about the early stages of human culture from what used to be called "primitive" cultures and even from the behaviour of social animals. We'd need the input of anthropologists and zoologists to guide us through these fields, but from my own dabbling I would be very reluctant to paint early societies in such negative terms. Even on a theoretical level, no society can exist without codes of restraint, and these always involve subordinating the desires of the individual to the needs of the group. Although this can be exploited politically, it's also the basis of what we call morality ... considering the needs of others. "Tyranny" sounds very much in the style of Nietzsche, but what makes you think that all earlier cultures were ruled by tyrants? -MATT: An irony here that makes me wish we had a full-Christian on the forum: "How can a God that demands submission to it be compatible with a society that focuses on the betterment of the individual?"-I think a Christian would probably say it's God's will that all individuals should better themselves, and part of self-betterment is helping one's fellow creatures. Submission to God would merely mean doing good in his name instead of in the name of humanity.-MATT: The "moral" () of the story is that our moral sense is developed by (and only by) our contact with other people. And the culture we live in is what determines what is "right" or "wrong," even though no objective "right" or "wrong" exists.-Precisely.-MATT: If my writing style seems suddenly different, it's because I've been reading Nietzsche again... and I tend to ape his style because I love it so—-Mein lieber Freund, wenn Sie meinen Stil nachahmen wollen, dann müssen Sie auf Deutsch schreiben! 
Mit herzlichen Grüssen von Ihrem 
Freddy