Evolution: as immaterial information (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, June 13, 2022, 12:33 (893 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: All of the processes in living cells we can see make life appear in cellular material. It is emergent. As you know I believe God started life.

dhw:The processes can’t even begin until the cells are alive! All parts of the cell are still present in a dead person. “God started life” is no more enlightening than “chance started life”, but at least in both cases we have now rid ourselves of “information” as the source of life.

DAVID: Information in cells can't be used by dead cells, so chichen and egg problem. Information must be present for life to exist and run its information-dependent processes. The source of life is either God or chance. The first appearance of life is with its informaton present.

All materials contain information. It takes intelligence to perceive, interpret and use the information. Your authors define life as “information that propagates”. Your second sentence therefore means: information must be present for information that propagates to exist and run its information-dependent processes. So information must exist for information to be present. Eureka! What is all this rigmarole meant to prove?

DAVID: Life runs by translating informational instructions it contains.

dhw: So “information that propagates” runs by translating information that it contains. (Nothing to do with how life started, but we should abandon that question.) So into what does the information that propagates translate the information it contains? What sort of information is “propagating” information anyway? Once upon a time, I thought information was purely passive, and needed a mind to interpret and use it. But not now apparently: it can translate and reproduce itself and spread itself around.

DAVID: Life started with information on board!! Information in and of itself is passive, obviusly. Life interpreting information propogates and informaton is carried along with it. A new species has new information, source must be chance or God.

Everything living and non-living starts with information on board! But it needs a mind to perceive, interpret and use it. Your authors say life is “information that propagates”, so now you have information that propagates interpreting information and propagating. Yes, a new species contains new information, but it is not information creating new information. The more you use the word, the more confusing it becomes. Of course the source of life and of intelligence must be chance or God, and if God created all the materials that contain all the information, then God is the source of all information and of the intelligence that perceives, interprets and uses it. If God exists, he is the source of everything. And if he doesn’t, he isn’t.

DAVID: The fact that life runs on immaterial information and operational information can only come from mental activity producing the informational concepts, a designer exists.

dhw: Now we have propagating information, instructional information, operational information and informational concepts, and life runs on mental activity which proves that God exists. And all this is meant to “unscramble” my brain. I suggest the following: Life runs on mental activity perceiving, interpreting and using information. Life comes from life, and nobody knows how life and mental activity started.

DAVID: Still a constant scramble as I analyze the bold. Life runs on the informaton it contains, which is obvious.

The bold shows what a confusing mess is created by indiscriminate use of the word “information”, which you agree is PASSIVE! Life itself is not information. What is your objection to my suggestion, now in red?