An ideal ultimate truth? (Origins)

by dhw, Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 12:11 (5308 days ago) @ George Jelliss

GEORGE: I'm intrigued however as to what dhw considers to be "the spiritual pleasures of life". I know he likes music and cricket, but I would have thought that these would require a material substrate for the sound vibrations, produced by the vibration of catgut or of reeds or of the human larynx, or the impact of leather on willow, to impinge on the material ear drum, and be sensed by the material nervous system. If there is no matter in the spiritual realm how are these pleasures of life to be experienced? Are they all made of "spirit stuff" whatever that is? (Maybe ectoplasm?) If so why is this spiritual stuff more spiritual than matter?-Before I answer, I would like to repeat part of my original response to BBella's question about our ideal ultimate truth. On 27 March at 15.22 under Computer "reads" memories, I wrote the following: "I would like to retain my identity, to be with the people I love, and continue the activities I enjoy. These would include access to literature, music, sport and chocolate, though how on Earth ... or wherever else ... this would be possible without a body, I really don't know. (Sex is another obvious victim of bodilessness.)" George's question is therefore one that ought to be put to someone who actually believes in an afterlife, but I'll try to answer it all the same, because I too find it intriguing. -With much reluctance and sadness, I've already given up hope of enjoying cricket, chocolate and sex in the next world. I can see no form of indulgence without the aid of my lost body. But my compensation is that I think I could still have access to love, friendship, conversation, music, literature, art, philosophy, memory etc.....This would be provided by the consciousness/energy/spirit/soul that may survive the death of my body. What form of access? Well, how do you think the deaf Beethoven "heard" his 9th Symphony, or Schubert his Great C Major, which was only discovered and performed after his death? How does a writer "see" and "hear" his characters? How do we feel emotions, summon up language, work out ideas, recall the past? If consciousness is not the product of the physical cells but is merely contained by them, the energy which in this discussion we are calling "spirit" may provide all these activities independently of the body. Freed from the physical container, it may be able to tune into and communicate with countless other "spirits" and their thoughts in an endless process of exchange.-The nearest most of us come to this form of communication and perception is probably through dreams. These are often so real that we're sorry (or relieved) to wake up and find they're pure imagination. Enhance that faculty for vivid, non-materialistic "reality", and you have the means of enjoying the spiritual pleasures. You might add extra-sensory perception, psychic experiences, the paranormal to the list of pointers to a non-materialistic world. Do I believe in them? No. Do I disbelieve in them? No. You conclude: "Once our matter decays we can no longer have any spiritual existence. We are no more." You may be right. I have no idea. All I'm offering here is an answer to your question how these pleasures might be experienced if you're wrong.