An ideal ultimate truth? (Origins)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Saturday, May 08, 2010, 17:33 (5313 days ago) @ David Turell


> > Perhaps we can leave God out of it just for the moment and concentrate instead on humans as a kind of stepping stone to God. Just as the universe may have started from a singular event, so do we, and the question for me is which comes first ... matter or intelligence? BBella's suggestion and your confirmation that all matter is energy appears to dissolve frontiers between the physical and the spiritual, but I don't see how we can do without this distinction. 
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> We have to use the fact that energy and matter are two forms of the same thing. there is no way around it.
> -Or we could begin by explaining that in a way similar that ice is the solid form of water, matter is a "solid" (glosses over lots of details) form of energy. -> > 
> >When the physical sperm fertilizes the physical egg, a new physical being comes into existence. Clearly, if you and BBella are right, a new "spiritual" being comes into existence at the same time, and to understand this, I need something a little more precise than "energy within brain matter". Do you think the brain matter PRODUCES the energy, or is it a CONDUIT for the energy?
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> A newborn baby is not very conscious. He is not aware that he is aware. That develops later. Our consciousness is at a quantum level, and comes from energy produced by the brain, which is why we cannot 'grab hold' of it, to use a Texas term.
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> > If it's the former, our consciousness is entirely our own, right from the beginning, and it will die with the brain; if it's the latter, does the brain tune into some external consciousness from the moment of birth?
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> We just don't know. Consciousness appears as the brain develops. If I am right that the consciousness is a quantum entity behind Heisenberg's wall of uncertainty, but arising in the brain, then the 'Zeno effect' in this following article may keep our consciousness in existence after we pass on and our soul becomes timeless.
> -The uncertainty principle isn't a "wall." It's "real" statement is mathematically dense, but it says that you can't know both the position and the velocity of a quantum object to an arbitrary precision. How you can possibly rationalize a basis of consciousness from this mathematical law means that you *must* be making an overarching series of generalizations divorced from the actual meaning of the theorem. At the level of how chemical actions occur (our brain) we aren't dealing with quantum phenomenon in the sense I've described in quantum computing. They're alot more predictable. Heisenberg's only action here is in determining positions of electrons. -> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627596.200-quantum-wonders-the-hamlet-effect.html

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"