Irreducible complexity: circular causality is similar (Introduction)

by David Turell , Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 18:18 (1799 days ago) @ David Turell

If a living system needs A to get to B, to go on to C, Darwin style evolution doesn't work:

https://evolutionnews.org/2019/05/an-unintended-endorsement-of-marcos-eberlins-new-book...

"In Eberlin’s own words: “The old chicken-and-egg problem is an example of causal circularity: To get A we need B, but to get B we first need A. We can’t have one without the other. To get both together, we need foresight.” In other words, we need intelligent design.

"Eberlin continues: “We find examples of this causal circularity — and thus the need for foresight — throughout living systems.” One example is the relationship between DNA, RNA, and proteins: “Without DNA and RNA, the cell could not synthesize the proteins it needs. Yet without a suite of complex proteins the cell could not synthesize more DNA and thus could never divide. And without another suite of complex proteins the cell could not make RNA. No DNA and RNA, no proteins. No proteins, no DNA or RNA.” (my bold)

"Eberlin describes other cases of causal circularity throughout his book. In each case, the organism needs A to make B, but it has to already have B before A exists. And in Eberlin’s examples A and B are both complex entities. Michael Behe used the human blood-clotting system as an example of irreducible complexity, because all of its complex components have to be present in order for a clot to form when and where it’s needed. But the components themselves do not depend on the prior existence of the other components. Causal circularity is a much stronger claim, and (as Eberlin repeatedly points out) it poses a serious problem for the notion that the components evolved step-by-step from simpler entities.

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"Eberlin goes into some detail about amazing features of the cervix that enable it to deliver a baby at the right time. The cervix and baby are like the chicken and egg: To get A we need B, but to get B we first need A. And this points to foresight.

"Eberlin writes: “If in the first-ever baby delivery, the cervix was not able to hold the baby in place and then open at exactly the right time, this poor pioneer infant would have been expelled too early or been trapped inside the mother’s womb, leading to the death of both child and mother.”

***

"According to a 2016 article published by the Royal Society (UK), “the timing of the origin and diversification of placental mammals [in which the cervix first appears] is a highly contentious topic.”

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"Eberlin’s main argument against evolution is based on causal circularity, but in his last chapter he criticizes punk eek as one of many attempts to salvage evolutionary theory in the face of its growing problems.

"Punctuated equilibria is a term introduced in 1972 by Darwinian paleontologists Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould to describe the observed fact that the vast majority of fossil species appear abruptly in the rocks (punctuation) and then persist unchanged for some time (equilibrium) before they disappear. According to Gould, “every paleontologist always knew” that this is the dominant pattern in the fossil record. (The Structure of Evolutionary Theory, 2002, 759.)

"Eldredge and Gould argued that the observed pattern is consistent with the theory of “allopatric speciation.” “Speciation” refers to the origin of new species, and “allopatric” (from words meaning “other” and “fatherland”) refers to geographical separation. According to the theory (which PM kindly summarizes for us rubes), part of a large population becomes geographically isolated. Then genetic changes somehow turn the isolated fragment into a new species, possibly in a short time (geologically speaking). Because of its size and rapid evolution the small isolate would initially leave no fossil record. By the time it started to leave fossils, it would seem to have originated abruptly and with no connection to the original population.

"There is direct fossil evidence for the pattern of punctuated equilibria, but only indirect and circumstantial evidence for the process of allopatric speciation. Apart from its consistency with the fossil record, the most powerful argument in favor of the theory of allopatric speciation is that primary speciation has never been observed, so speciation must occur where we can’t detect it. In other words, the point of the theory is to explain why we can’t find any direct evidence for the most important class of events in evolution.

"Eberlin doesn’t buy punk eek, because (he writes) it “offers no credible mechanism for the geologically rapid evolution of new forms.'”

Comment: this idea of circular causality is certainly a stronger criticism of Darwin-style -evolution than irreducible complexity. It fits all of my comments about the struggling origin of life experiments. Note my bold above.