Bacterial Intelligence? self ID virus that kills enemies (General)

by dhw, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 11:41 (2034 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: My interpretation of how cells receive information through chemical reactions is clear in the article. I have just avoided the Darwinian interpretations of the authors. When they say the bacteria 'uses the virus', they purposely imply the bacteria knows what it is doing, when it all looks perfectly automatic to me and they even discuss the protein reaction involved.

dhw: You continue to ignore the fact that all forms of life, including ourselves, receive information through chemical reactions. Even you, when you claim to be a dualist, draw a distinction between material acquisition of information and the processes through which we analyse that information, choose between options, take decisions etc. You acknowledge that these are the hallmarks of intelligence, but then you always fall back on the automatic material or chemical processes as if they provided evidence that there is no intelligence.

DAVID: What chemical processes show is that life at the cellular level can easily be seen and understood as automatic reactions following intelligent instructions. All the research shows is a series of chemical reactions, not the purposeful underlying controls. All biological processes exhibit purpose.

The research CAN only show chemical reactions, cellular or human. Of course the processes are purposeful, so what “intelligent instructions” or “purposeful controls” are you thinking of, other than your God’s 3.8-billion-year-old programme for all cellular actions, or his personal dabbling?

DAVID: A protein molecule is not like as trained dog. It reacts to other proteins in a series of reactions, as far as I am concerned all set off automatically.

dhw: Molecules react automatically to receive information and to implement decisions. But what sets off the process of implementation (i.e. decision-making) is a mystery. You tell us your God must have preprogrammed or dabbled all the decisions or steps for whenever a decision is required. A theistic alternative is that he gave all organisms, including bacteria, the means by which to take their own decisions. Simple choice for you. You have now at least acknowledged that your own choice is not a belief, which I find encouraging.

DAVID: How God controlled the advances of evolution are logical speculations. Bacterial decisions follow logical underlying algorithms.

Your “algorithms” are the same as your “intelligent instructions” which are the same as your 3.8 billion-year-old computer programme for every single undabbled decision. You may introduce as many scientific terms as you like, but you are still faced with a stark choice between these two options and cellular intelligence, and I remain encouraged by the fact that your personal choice is not a belief.