Evolutionary theory cannot be falsified (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, April 01, 2017, 10:22 (2792 days ago) @ David Turell

Tony: I think it might be accurate to say that science leads us to a point where we understand that there had to be something "supernatural", something beyond the realm of science, because all of the 'natural' laws break down and what's left is inexplicable.
DAVID: Without question.

dhw: In true agnostic fashion I would phrase it slightly differently: science leads us to the point where there may be something beyond the realm of science, because all of the 'natural' laws that we know break down, and what's left is currently inexplicable and may always remain so.
DAVID: If first cause is an accepted approach, we will reach the point where a 'designer' cannot be denied. Each of us can then shape the designer's characteristics as each of us wills.

I accept first cause as an approach, but deny that your single, causeless, conscious ‘designer’ mind cannot be denied. The alternative that I have suggested over and over again is energy and matter constantly interacting, and countless consciousnesses originating and evolving from that interaction. Design from bottom upwards, as opposed to design from top downwards. Of course I find both hypotheses equally difficult to believe, which is why I am an agnostic. What you would call an either/or.

TONY: I prefer to infer his characteristics by the examination of his creation. A preference which is supported in the biblewhen it stays that all that can be known the creator can be learned by studying his creation
DAVID: Exactly as I do it, and the Quran agrees.

Me too, if I put on my theist’s hat. And what do I see when I examine his creation? Wondrous beauty, love, compassion, inventiveness, mixed with appalling ugliness, selfishness, cruelty, suffering.

Two further observations:
David, I thought you prided yourself on not inferring ANY of your God’s characteristics, as that means humanizing him.
Tony, in anticipation of a possible reply from you: (a) my second list existed long before humans came on the scene, and (b) I am not objecting to the mixture here but am merely inferring your God’s possible characteristics by examining his creation.